I don't think the other members of the What's My Line panel liked Dorothy Kilgallen, Part 8

Let's complete Part 7 first. Previous thread:

Re: comedians on the show.

Steve Allen was the best of the lot. His humor was more in-line with Arlene's. He was a semi-regular and so he really understood the show. He was never disruptive. He never made it about himself.

I just posted R600 in the old thread, and it has been marked closed.

Sadly, this will likely be my biggest claim to fame around here... ; )

Call me crazy but I find the young mid-1950s Steve Allen weirdly sexy.

And I think back then he was actually perceived as rather hip and cool. At least until a few years later, when truly hip and cool comics like Mort Sahl appeared on the scene.

Was Laraine Day fucking Mark Goodson?

R4 = Jayne Meadows

You're not fooling anyone.

Steve moments.

[quote]I was at a party once, where we played What's My Line? using our first jobs out of high school or college. I was shocked at just how terrible most people were at playing the game.

The above is from [R593] in the previous thread.

I've played along with the WML panel a few times because I was inattentive when the occupation was flashed on the screen and, yes, it is hard. Even having seen hundreds of episodes, knowing the frequency with which certain occupations turn up, and hearing the answers to the experienced panelists' questions, there are so many possibilities it's really difficult to figure out in most cases. Sometimes, even when you know the answer, it's amazing to see how quickly Arlene, especially, gets it right.

This is in contrast to To Tell The Truth, which I've been watching lately because I've gone through all but the earliest the WML episodes. On TTTT, you play along whether you want to or not, of course, and it's not too hard. Granted, you have a 1 in 3 chance of being right just by guessing, but there are a lot of clues that you can use to figure out who the real contestant is. With the WML occupations, there are a world of choices.

There's another thread going on The Sound of Music, so I thought I'd post this here. I'm sure it's been posted before, but in case you haven't seen it, here's Julie Andrews' one and, as far as I know, only appearance on WML. February 7, 1960.

I have to googie Katherine Grayson too but she sure was pretty. A young Tom Poston is pretty cute. I like him on both shows. The private eye at the end of the show is pretty cute.

Yes Julie was only on the show that one time.

She almost beat that panel.

Martyn Green.

The PE director in R9 is handsome.

There's one with a night watchman at an all girls school. He's hot as hell. Than the really young guy who works at a spa for woman. He was hot as fuck too. Arlene flirted shamelessly and her flirted shamelessly right back. "off and on". It was pretty funny.

the incredibly hot Ted Williams.

The Skin Diver in R9 has a Maria Callas look.

Kathryn Grayson was far prettier than I expected her to be! She aged better than some of her sexier peers. But it seemed odd the way she was rushed off as soon as her identity was revealed. I think JCD just wanted to move onto the cute Ivy League private detective.

R15 here is the episode with the handsome women's spa exercise instructor.

I'm going to give you one minute more on this.

Don't call me a moron.

R18 maybe she had to rush to do her show at the supper club.

For R16

Ted Williams was so sexy! That hair............

Funny Arlene/Martin moments.

Ted Williams had the same kind of goofy pansexual appeal and dimples that young Joe Namath did.

Did Joe ever do the syndicated version of WML? Pretty sure he was too young for the original.

Joe on WML is not listed on IMDb.

The didn’t call Ted the Splendid Splinter for nothing….🍆

The recently deceased James Earl Jones.

Ted W.

Gary Gabelich

R9 Ted created the whole shower shoe “fashion” statement. Strange but true.

R29 ^

Another Ted. He was an all around good guy. A very early environmentalist. He did a lot for cleaning up rivers and saving/reintroducing fish into them. He did two "hitches" in the Marines. Which he thought was his most important accomplishments. If he didn't have a job in the Marines where he would have aged out he probably would have stayed in even longer. All his time in public life and there was probably never a bad word said against him.

Ted having fun.

Ted shaved his chest!

The garbage man they had in this episode is the best looking man they had on the show this side of Ricky Nelson.

That garbage collector was indeed handsome, but he seemed a bit clueless on several of the details of his job. I wonder if he was an actor with garbage collecting as a sideline?

Yes, because that was so typical of the era🙄

Whoa...there's a point where they go in for a close-up of Mr. Garbage Collector...those are movie star looks.

BTW: Martin Gabel is so suave and cool.

He looks a bit like the before Montgomery Clift.

And he raced out of there at the end.

thank your R40. I was going mad thinking of who he reminded me of.

[quote]The garbage man they had in this episode is the best looking man they had on the show this side of Ricky Nelson.

Yes, but was he a singing garbage man?

We know them, ad nauseam🥱

I have high bp. What’s my price?

I'll still take the singing garbagemen. They had spunk!

[quote]We know them, ad nauseam🥱

You sound like fun.

I am—I’ve made several well-liked posts on the LONG-running WM thread, during which time we’ve seen the garbage duo many times.

Sorry. I forgot it was post number three, part one. Had I remembered I wouldn't have reposted it.

Cunt

[quote]I’ve made several well-liked posts on the LONG-running WM thread

Well, smell you, r49.

Do we like the Bull fighter?

The nurse got wolf whistled and while she had a good figure her face was average.

Celeste Holm on the panel.

CELESTE, entering the WML green room: "Good evening, everyone!"

ARLENE: "Oh, shit, good manners."

R56 doesn't get it.

Arlene and Dorothy in Monaco for the wedding.

Elsa Maxwell: Does this dress make me look fat?

Celeste corrects Elsa about who has designed Grace's wedding dress. Elsa says she's Helen Rome. No, it's Rose.

Helen Rose had designed Celeste's costumes, as well as those for Grace, for HIGH SOCIETY. Though perhaps it's mentioned in the segment, which I haven't yet watched.

Fontana

TF aka Tim Flock

One of the Fontana sisters was featured on "To Tell the Truth" brought to you by Geritol. Polly Bergen and Kitty Carlisle are on the panel.

^ Also you can be sure Kitty Carlisle knew who Micol Fontana was, every society woman did, but probably played along faking ignorance.

Celeste as MG #2. Her first appearance is not on YouTube.

Third Best Sport.

Bloopers

Ah we see Arlene's infamous hat at 8:30.

Here's the whole show with Arlene in her hat.

Were Celeste's false eyelashes at r67 made of construction paper curled with a scissors?

Glad to see Audrey Meadows, right before they filmed the classic 39.

The hat reminds me of Lee Grant's rain-soaked wedding hat in Plaza Suite.

WTF with that hat? Dottie Mae must have gotten a chuckle out of that hat.

R70 Did that Sunday broadcast fall on Easter? Perhaps that could explain the headgear on Arlene and Dorothy?

Nothing could explain that headgear. Unless she maybe was going to take a dip in the pool after the show.

In fact: Apr 17, 1960 was Easter Sunday.

John makes reference to the fact that it is Easter. Also he has a dig at Arlene's hat in his intro.

You can tell she was embarrassed by the hat and that she wore it for Martin's sake.

This show has the cute Mosquito Exterminator AND Ingemar.

And I thought r80's bridal veil salesman was kind of hot in his way. I imagine a hairy dad bod with a spectacular treasure trail under that suit.

previous Ingemar.

Ingemar must have been an atrocious actor if those staggering good looks couldn't get him into the movies.

Ingemar was also a Olympic medal winner in track and field too. He was fucking rail thin when he did that

Since Ingo could barely speak, Tarzan would have been a perfect fit. And his face had that exotic/feral quality not unlike the young Johnny Weissmuller.

I really like Ralph Bellamy. He was cutthroat on TTTT

sad that these days and people like the panels are gone and are never coming back.

the only show with Reginald Gardiner.

Portland Hoffa

R81, we must have similar taste in men. I remember thinking he was hot the first time I saw that episode, and I still do. He was cute with the questions, too.

R86, I didn't much like Bellamy on TTTT, but he was a sharp interrogator for sure. If he was on the same panel with Don Ameche, the poor contestants must have felt like suspects at the police station.

Speaking of TTTT, I've seen a few "real" contestants who I swear were also on WML. Am I crazy? Could that be? I know they're from the same producers, obviously, but wasn't there a risk that someone from one of the panels would have seen them on the other show?

According to Dorothy and Bennett, they rarely watched TV, r90.

Anyway, I don't think it would have been unlikely at all to share contestants. There were occasional contestants on WML who'd had previous personal interactions with all the panelists, and they never recognized them, which was, of course, part of the humor (and snob appeal) of WML.

I know Jimmy Hoffa was into Portland Cement, but I didn't know Portland Hoffa.

R91, right, the WML panelists were probably rarely watching TV at 7:30 p.m., when TTTT was aired in the latter half of its run. It just seems a chance I'm surprised Goodson Todman would take. It works the other way, too. One of the TTTT panelists might have recognized a WML contestant. They could disqualify themselves, but then they'd have to give the reason, and it would be embarrassing if they said "I saw Number Two on What's My Line".

Also, millions of people watched both shows and some of them would recognize the repeat contestants. It could contribute to the false idea that the games were fixed.

Anyway, I guess it did happen (although, frustratingly, I can't remember a specific example right how). It just surprised me.

Sometimes I would second hand squirm for the contestants on TTTT when Ralph was on. One interesting thing about TTTT was when they had military themed guests on, like one would be an admiral, and it was close to WWII and/or compulsory service. The men on the panel could really drill them. Yeah Ralph was tough on them. I really like, what little I've seen of him, as an actor too.

Dorothy goofs and Tony slips.

Gene Fullmer

This thread is fascinating because it reads like a transcript of conversations taking place in a Senior Living Facility for Gays.

Natalie Kushnir

R97 and/or the Brady Bunch and Bewitched threads.

[quote]This thread is fascinating because it reads like a transcript of conversations taking place in a Senior Living Facility for Gays.

In other words: it's actually something worth listening to and participating in.

That's why you're here.

Gene Fullmer is sexy but I have a thing for the sexy ugly type.

Ralph and Don in Trading Places. I love how Ralph made a second career late in life by accepting a lot of minor supporting roles. He made a name for himself all over again.

Fuck you.

I did the same thing—with an Oscar to boot!

Peak Cher…oh, and Ameche wins

Dorothy on TTTT. She did not fit in. So I don't think the other members of the To Tell the Truth panel liked Dorothy Kilgallen either. I really liked Dina Merrill on any show she participated on. If it was a guest, on TTTT, that involved something of culture or the upper class she would grill them. I remember their was an aide to President Kennedy and boy did Dina rake them over the coals.

[quote] This thread is fascinating because it reads like a transcript of conversations taking place in a Senior Living Facility for Gays.

R97 You mean the kind of place that plays nothing but WML episodes on “movie” nights?

Teresa Stratas is still with us.

I find it hard to believe that Dina did not know who she was.

OP: are you STILL alive or posting from the Other Side?

Dina Merrill ... from when there were people with CLASS at Mar-A-Lago.

The test pilot for jet bombers gets into censorable territory

OE aka Pat Tibbs

Censorable territory, R110? If the panel had asked Tibbs the "bigger than a breadbox" question early, they might have gotten the answer or at least gotten to airplanes.

People were a lot franker about weight back then, weren't they? Mrs Greenberger runs a shop for "fat men". Dorothy uses the same phrase when she guesses the answer. The panel also sometimes makes references to and jokes about contestant's weight, height, etc. Imagine how that would be received today.

I think Mrs Greenberger's outfit was recycled for use by Lotte Lenya in From Russia With Love. I like tailored suits on women, but that one, combined with the plain blouse, was downright severe.

Funny you should bring that up, R105. I just saw the Dorothy episode of TTTT last night. No, she absolutely did not fit in. She messed up her first question by breaking the rules and then made an ignorant mistake by not realizing that Carmen is in French (or not realizing that Don José is pronounced differently in French than in Spanish). I actually felt sorry for her. First, she’s a WML regular and so “family”, and second because she was always so anxious to do well. She probably went home in tears that night.

I love Dina Merrill, too. She’s pretty, elegant, poised and funny, but a great player. I’m always happy to see her on either show. Too bad she never became a regular on either one, but maybe she didn’t want to be. (And, to be honest, she would have been maybe a little too much like a young Kitty Carlisle on TTTT; Peggy Cass was more of a contrast to say the least).

The test pilot segment has Bennett asking about a certain part of the male anatomy. this is deemed to be for Not safe for 1950s TV in the blooper reel of R68.

They bothered to drag Arlene Dahl and her big muff out but left no time for even a little chit chat with her and MG Fernando Lamas (my god, he was sexy!). I wonder how soon after this episode they divorced.

Discovering What's My Line on YouTube led me to TTTT. I think I like Bud Collier more than John Daley. When Peggy Cass joined TTTT it's quality jumped. It's funny, Polly Bergen, after Arlene, is my favorite panelist. Yet when she left and was replaced by Peggy Cass the show was better for it. Man though Polly turned her run on a game show into quiet a career. I think Kitty hated her. Hate to derail a WML thread but the two shows seem to go together nicely.

Lamas remained married to Arlene Dahl until 1960.

Milton Berle.

**kisses Dahl**

Collyer, R116.

I suppose by now someone has written about how Bennet Cerf disliked her crass competitiveness, Henry Morgan let Bennet Cerf know his story was boring and got banned, everyone was drunk sometimes but Dorothy was so sloshed on one episode it caused comment, and anyone who likes the dreadful Bud Collyer more than the equitable, subtle, comradely Mr. Daly deserves to sit through all the Soupy Sales episodes.

And it's not because Collyer was crippled and wobbled from side to side like an uncertain bowling pin.

I know I'm going to regret asking this but why should I hate Bud?

I thought Bud was a very good host. A bit too preachy a Christian for my taste, but it was a different era. And I guess it WAS important to stress positive virtues in a show that highlighted lying.

I have to laugh at the hat the horse hat maker wears in R118.

This is the straight part Milton speaks of appearing in next. Co-starring Bea Arthur!

So, Fernando and Esther didn't get together during their MGM years?

Esther said in interview that Fernando was interested but she could see he was screwing around and she would only take him if he was monogamous. So he had to wait and get all the screwing done first.

R116, I like Bud Collyer better than John Daly, too. Bud is unfailingly cheerful, and John's name-dropping gets annoying, as does his obsession with the Tilton School.

I don't dislike John; I just like Bud better. They were both good moderators. It can't be easy keeping shows with so many segments and so many people moving along on time, while simultaneously being good-natured and keeping an eye on the comments to be sure they don't go too far for television in the '50s and '60s.

Peggy was a great player, and she did improve the show. She's far from my favorite panelist, but she was good at her job.

I don't think Arlene was ever a guest panelist on TTTT, was she? I do recall an episode of WML where John mentioned that Arlene was going to be on I've Got A Secret, but never TTTT. Too bad. She would have had fun and made the show more fun, too.

[quote]It's funny, Polly Bergen, after Arlene, is my favorite panelist. Yet when she left and was replaced by Peggy Cass the show was better for it.

I always liked Polly Bergen, but not as a panelist on "To Tell the Truth," where she struck me as too much of a camera hog, always trying to call attention to herself. I much preferred her as a chanteuse on "The Ed Sullivan Show," dolled up and wearing long gloves as she dramatically interpreted popular songs of the day.

Always loved Polly Bergen but I get the impression there's a lot about her the public never knew (and I don't just mean her possible late in life lesbianism). She was beautiful and so talented in so many directions yet never quite achieved top stardom in any of them. A leading lady character actress.

1965. A stunningly beautiful Polly singing in French with Sandler & Young on the Ed Sullivan Show. Tony Sandler (on the right) is still with us.

Man, have times changed.

Wow! What a gorgeous and fascinating number that is, r131. I wonder how it came to be conceived. Was this before or after The Singing Nun had a big hit with a very different version?

The only thing with Polly though is that hairstyle. Her bone structure in her face is nearly incomprable but that frau hair always made her look 20 years older than she was. I remember watching on YouTube when she came back to the panel after a week off. She missed the last show because of the Emmy awards. She was nominated, and won, for a special she did. When she came back Bud and the panel congratulate her. However, beneath the smile, Kitty looked like she wanted to kill her.

I wonder who shouted "get me Polly Bergen!" for Cape Fear. That casting seems so off the wall but it worked. It just seems odd because nearly every actress in Hollywood wanted that role.

Polly always seemed on the verge of bigger things that never quite materialized.

I loved all the panelists on I've Got a Secret but didn't like the show. Loved, loved, loved Betsy Palmer.

Don't know who Suzie Knickerbocker is but she made a GREAT panelist. She fit it effortlessly. Her she is with Polly.

How could you not know Suz K?

It was a small part but Polly was great on The Sopranos.

Milton Berle #1

Frank Gifford is handsome.

R141 just awoke from a coma…. We’ve known this since the end of the Korean War

To add: he was hot, but very dumb hot.

Coming from Bakersfield and USC, he had the intelligence of Portland cement.

The Gas Station Attendant in R110 has an overbite.

R131, thank you. What a strange arrangement! (It was after the Singing Nun version; in fact, I believe she wrote the song.)

I had a huge crush on Tony Sandler when I was a gayling. Looking at his pictures from that era (late '60s), I still think he was hot. He's still alive at 91 ... probably not still hot.

Speaking of Polly Bergen, why did she leave TTTT? Or, to put it more accurately, why did she vanish from TTTT without a word from anyone, much like Don Ameche a few months later in 1961? There was nothing from Bud, Polly (or Don), or anyone on the panel saying goodbye or explaining the departure. It was just here today, gone tomorrow. Weird. That would never have happened on WML. Audiences at the time must have been puzzled, and there must have been mention in gossip columns (maybe our Dorothy had something to say about it!).

I don't think Arlene was ever a guest panelist on TTTT, was she?

On November 2 1965 Arlene and Dorothy taped an episode where they both pretended to be Joan Crawford while sitting next to the real Crawford. It had yet to be aired when Dorothy died on November 8. It is shelved and then believed destroyed because of the common practice of wiping videotape for reuse. However the show was later broadcast on the Game Show Network decades later.

[quote] Speaking of Polly Bergen, why did she leave TTTT? Or, to put it more accurately, why did she vanish from TTTT without a word from anyone, much like Don Ameche a few months later in 1961? There was nothing from Bud, Polly (or Don), or anyone on the panel saying goodbye or explaining the departure.

Don't let Bud's genial smile fool you. He ran that show with an iron fist. And if you managed to cross him, you were dead to him & the show.

John Daly had that NYC sophisticate thing about him. He was so much more interesting than Bud Collyer. Collyer reminded me of maybe Ozzie Nelson. That bland 1950s TV dad type.

In R140 Milton mentions he plans to do a new TV show with Sidney Sheldon but I don't think it was made.

The early 60s was when Polly finally got some big Hollywood films like The Caretakers, Cape Fear and Move Over, Darling so perhaps she was too busy on the west coast for TTTT.

Milton # 3

JH Edmondson

Do you think the Neiman Marcus maternity clothes salesman was gay?

On a 1950s episode I watched last night, one of the contestants was a gentleman who designed girdles. He had started out designing women's clothing. Gay, gay, gay, gay, gay.

Do you have the date of the episode or who the mystery quest was?

The mystery guest was Mary Healy, R155. Her husband, Peter Lind Hayes, was on the panel.

Is it this one?

^ Yes.

R151 is the show where a man came running onto the set to greet Milton.

Wiki. Check out his scorching personal life.

Bill Douglas could've been president. He was among the few who were considered by the party to replace Henry Wallace on the dying FDR's 1944 ticket.

The girdle designer isn't an obvious gay to me. But the segment is very funny.

What's My Line? never fails for some laugh-out-loud laughs,

Lucy, Burns&Allen and What's-My-Line? the three 1950s TV shows that still get to me.

Nor to me, R162.

R161 he was never going to be selected…the diametric opposite of what FDR’s staff was looking for in 1944. They dumped Henry for a reason.

The Bill Douglas of 1944 was not the great liberal he became over the next thirty years on the High Court. And though FDR was incredibly passive about the choice, perhaps owing to his failing health & energy, historical accounts of those years make clear that Douglas was right at the top of his list of successors to Wallace. I just read a new Henry Wallace biography very much on point on this topic.

And that’s why they picked Harry Truman. Jeez, be more stupid if you can.

Stupid, really?! That Truman ended up getting the nod - because he had more support among the party bosses to whom FDR largely deferred - doesn't mean that Douglas wasn't in the running.

But it does mean he wasn’t ever actually going to be the choice! Eventually—I hope—you will understand the distinction. For now, go back to 11th grade; do not pass GO and do not collect $200.

Are you okay, R169?!

My original post:

[quote] Bill Douglas could've been president. He was among the few who were considered by the party to replace Henry Wallace on the dying FDR's 1944 ticket.

Because the pick for VP in '44 was clearly going to succeed to the presidency in the event of the dying FDR's reelection, ANY of those in the running to be the vice presidential "could've been president." Douglas WAS definitely in the running (as was Jimmy Byrnes,). Hence, he "could've been president."

[quote] But it does mean he wasn’t ever actually going to be the choice! Eventually—I hope—you will understand the distinction. For now, go back to 11th grade; do not pass GO and do not collect $200.

I never once said he was "going to be the choice." You've created a straw man out of whole cloth. I hope this settles your confused mind.

Now, let's all return to the real reason we're here - whether Dorothy's co-panelists liked her.

You’re as tiresome as Henry Wallace’s ill-fated campaign R170

R171, you're the very definition of someone who makes a mountain out of a molehill, & I'm the tiresome one?! How very rich of you.

“I'm the tiresome one!”

Alex, what is Yes for $1000.

Was the audience laughing at the private detective in R157?

Mary Healy

I don't know why singers smoked but Polly admitted in an interview that by the time she was 16 she was a pack a day smoker. It's shocking she lasted as long as she did.

The Supremes, Lana Turner, and an incredibly good looking wine salesman.

There's been no call for a conference.

At what (early) point of the network show did they dispense with talking about the contestant winning money by stumping the panel?

R117 Yes, the wine salesman is a hunk!

I love Suzy's uppercrust accent. She sounds like Gloria Upson.

I'm now googling John T. Pennell, wine salesman and champion pole vaulter.

Sorry, it's actually John T. Pennel.

Wiki tells us he also appeared on TTTT before WML and then later on The Dating Game, where he won over Burt Reynolds, and finally with his family on Family Feud. I imagine some of those appearances could be linked here by someone more ambitious than me. Sadly, he died in 1993 at age 53 of liver cancer.

He was the favorite to win the pole vault at both Tokyo and Mexico City, but he failed to medal either time. He set multiple world records.

Wiki

On Family Feud.

It’s very hard to have a lantern jaw and remain very hawt. But he pulled it off well.

The first three contestants on that Dating Game clip all look like Colt models.

Spoiler: Falcon Video!

The old days…men were men, and glory holes were ubiquitous. No pronouns required.

That hot surfer told the dizzy blond to go back to the room as he caught up with some tres 🔥French skiers!

FYI: Jim Lange, host of the Dating Game, married the love of his life—Miss America 1961–a teen hottie from Michigan.

I'd love to know the rest of the story about the love life of the game one bachelorette, who liked "mean" men.

What a surprise Diana took the chair for The Supremes in R177.

John Pennel looks a bit like Paul Newman.

R191 Bennett Cerf and his wife were judges at the 1961 Miss America pageant.

Mark Goodson too!

And also George Balanchine and Mitch Miller.

Bennett took the stage to present the Miss Congeniality award.

They chose well…

Ooh R171! A burn straight from 1948!!!

Here's Phyllis Newman stinking things up.

The R177 racetrack bookie assistant is John Hurt in drag.

Milton # 4

R188, they were all hot, but Bachelor #1 was spectacular.

If you ask me, all 6 Bachelors were extremely hot, including, of course, young Burt Reynolds. Did the show always have so many gorgeous contestants?

Weren't those striped shirts that the Kingston Trio sported considered very SoCal hip and cool in 1963? And didn't the early Beach Boys copy it?

I fucking hate Phyllis Newman.

Everyone wore them. No copying required.

Poor Nick Adams got shut down by Carl Sandburg.

I wanted to punch this little girl ventriloquist in her throat.

[quote]Weren't those striped shirts that the Kingston Trio sported considered very SoCal hip and cool in 1963?

I remember my older brother wearing one and calling it his "Kingston Trio shirt."

Your brother was an idiot

The "on my left" vs. "on my right" debate.

I’m in my own bed so I’ll do what I want!

Marilyn Patch became...

Wooo energy. Good handwriting and a lot of personality for a kid. Dead giveaway of a TV performer. It would be darned interesting if any videotapes of her show survive after all these years --the concept seems a trifle creepy what with the ringlets and the belting. WML had an interest in employed children and liked to put them on as often as possible. Henry Makow and trapeze artist Ray Valentine come to mind.

Super sexy wrestler from Canada.

He was a sexy hunk o' man!

So strange that there wasn't a single word of chit chat after Ms. Gabor was identified.

Henry Makow has not WML credit on IMDb. He was on To Tell the Truth and I've Got a Secret.

R214, very sexy, and charming, too. I loved the way he answered with a confident "yes" or "no", no elaboration and little hesitation.

I couldn't find any pictures of Stephan Zold, and most of the references on Google are to his WML appearance, so perhaps his wrestling career wasn't too long or successful. He died at 82 in 2011, survived by his wife of 62 years and a flock of children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

Also, Eva Gabor was absolutely gorgeous in that episode. What a beautiful woman she was.

[quote]Your brother was an idiot

I guess it takes one to know one, R209. You missed the point entirely

Couldn't find the whole show where Ray Valentine appeared.

Stephen Zold wrestling data

Mr. Zold also had lovely penmanship; it should be noted.

Can I see your hands Mr. Zold? OOOOOO a ruffian!

Good penmanship used to be encouraged in schools. Some teachers even gave medals to the student with the best hand.

Milton #5

I think Arlene is tipsy again in this one.

r217=Merv Griffin

So many mystery guests and we keep getting Milton Berle??

He did have that huge cock. Maybe they could have covered that on I've Got a Secret.

The Andrews Sisters. Lots of applause but no wolf whistles...

Guessed very quickly. Apparently they were playing The Latin Quarter (owned by Barbara Walter's dad).

The lady bartender segment really shows how adept the panel was at asking the right questions.

Number 1, 2 or 3: who has the horse dick?

Only one is here To Tell The Truth!

That bat boy was cute as fuck.

The bat boy looks a stand-in for Ricky Nelson

[quote]r229 = Apparently they were playing The Latin Quarter (owned by Barbara Walter's dad).

Lou booked *all* of the greats!

Bat boy looks like Lloyd Bridges.

Milton as panelist

[quote] (owned by Barbara Walter's dad).

Oh, dear.

R236 Sorry about that!

Should read: "...owned by Baba Wawa's dad".

Bat Boy's clothes were funny. In 1959 he was still wearing a very baggy oversized blazer and full pleated trousers but a skinny tie.

Idaho Vicar and Parachute Jumper.

I have to laugh at Carol's stammering when questioning the Vicar.

Was he a dishy vicar, R240?

He was a dishy vicar, indeed!

The poor saddle maker seemed as confused by her wolf whistles as I was.

Another with Carol as panelist.

oh dear Carol and corn.

Dina Merrill would have guessed the designer without asking a single question.

Marc Bohan died last year at the age 97.

Marc Bohan

Ann Marston

I remember as a kid in the 60s being introduced to the phenomena that was Carol Channing who constantly appeared on Password and What's My Line? and probably I've Got a Secret, too. As well as every NY based talk show. She really hawked Hello, Dolly! whenever and wherever she could.

But she piqued my interest in seeing Broadway musicals and started going as a teen a few years later.

1960 Joey Bishop as MG.

I *love* this!

John Ficklin

As of this week, Buzzr is no longer showing the 1950s episodes of "What's My Line?," "To Tell the Truth" and "I've Got a Secret" with the original commercials. They've been replaced with early '70s episodes of "What's My Line?" with Wally Bruner as the host and the Gary Moore-hosted syndicated "To Tell the Truth." Unfortunately, Soupy Sales was a regular panelist from the very beginning of the syndicated "What's My Line?" Thank god for Arlene Francis, the only touch of class remaining from the original series.

Jorie Livingston was in the road company of Annie Get Your Gun in the 1940s.

Doesn't the whole world hate Soupy Sales?

[quote]I remember as a kid in the 60s being introduced to the phenomena that was Carol Channing

Oh, dear.

Pre-natal gayling, that one! …

Jack Carter. Dorothy mentions him in the second Joey Bishop MG episode.

Jack Carter was the angry/non-funny member of that era’s comic “troup.”

Even Arlene knew her balls…and strikes!

Now you have to sign into YouTube to view videos. Bleh.

R260, Arlene often showed extensive and up-to-date knowledge about sports, especially New York sports teams. I wonder if this had always been an interest of hers, or if she picked it up from Martin, who was an avid sports fan. He seemed to know about almost any sport, no matter how obscure.

Speaking of Martin, he must have been one of the nicest human beings ever. He was unfailingly gracious to everyone (even Dorothy!) and kind and welcoming to the contestants. He was modest and self-effacing, and he obviously adored Arlene. I'll bet he was a charming host as well. I'm always delighted when he shows up as a guest panelist.

In previous threads people have posted that they couldn't see what Arlene saw in him because he was short and chubby (though he was quite handsome when younger). Clearly, he was a great human being and she loved him. Hell, even in his later years I found him charming and sexy. You just know he would be a considerate lover.

R261, that sucks, but isn't it true now of almost all sites? I know X, Instagram and Facebook limit what you can see anonymously. It's all part of the general loss of privacy that everyone just seems to accept, everywhere, all the time.

Oh now it works.

The only thing that I liked about Martin was he seemed to have an extreme soft spot for Dottie Mae.

Jack Carter

I believe Jack Carter was the one responsible for introducing Lucy to Gary. Jack was married to actress Paula Stewart who played Lucy's younger sister in Wildcat.

Sal Maglie

Mystery Guests: Tony Bennett and his toupee.

Plus Brian Epstein

Paul Anka on the panel.

Dorothy questioning the Mystery Guest: "Where you at the San Gennaro Festival this year?" and "Have you within the last month or so occupied the Presidential suite at a Middle Western hotel?"

Ya gotta love her.

My impression is professional football and especially baseball were watched on tv by entire families back in the 1950s and early 60s. They truly were national pastimes, and the star players (at least seemingly more wholesome than today) were beloved and cherished by millions of fans.

Duke Snider looks like Ben Affleck.

Willie Mays.

Paul Anka

R274 We all KNOW who Paul Anka is.

What’s so interesting to me about the sports stars of the era is their lack of visibility. Y. A. Tittle, the then star quarterback of the hometown NY (football) Giants, went unrecognized as an imposter on TTTT.

YA Tittle

In the 1950s (and before) most pro baseball players had other non-sports-related businesses to supplement their paltry salaries in the off-season. Hard to imagine now.

Like no one knew who the hot Frank Gifford was? Arlene was moist as a snack cake on that episode.

We were all moist as snack cakes, r279.

Tittle episode.

[quote]My impression is professional football and especially baseball were watched on tv by entire families back in the 1950s and early 60s. They truly were national pastimes,

You can extend that through the late '60s and early '70s, R271, except that by then it was more NFL than baseball. The fact that pro football was played on Sunday afternoons made it a natural for family viewing. You watched with your family as Sunday dinner cooked, and everybody knew the players. We weren't quite so naive about their private lives as people might have been in the '50s, but they were still household names and local heroes.

Then again, you could say the same thing about any popular TV show. There were so few choices that everybody watched basically the same things (including commercials, which is why ad jingles and taglines became national memes-before-there-were-memes). It forged a kind of national popular culture that everyone shared. Shared culture is now long gone, greatly to our detriment.

The frankfurter lady looks a bit like Jessica Lange.

It is Jessica Lange. She's 104 yrs. old.

Paul Anka musta got some good management back then. He went from a shlubby Lebanese kid from Canada to a pocket hottie. Lost weight, got a nose job... the rest is history.

He did a lot of Password and was a good player.

Rita and Paul, 60 years ago. And both still working.

In R281 Tony Randall says Dorothy is known to her friends as Dolly Mae.

Carol Channing as panelist.

Baker Street musical.

I never miss a Fritz Weaver musical.

Why does the whale feeder wear her hair in that stiff style?

Baker Street was the first Broadway musical I ever saw. 1965. I was 16 and utterly smitten with all things Broadway after that.

Carol as panelist.

I think last time I linked this episode in past threads I commented on how Carol's sparkly dress must have been a headache for the cameraman.

last time Carol as panelist.

oh no another sparkly dress that flares.

The Australian wine steward is another one with a helmet hairstyle.

The syndicated color shows from 1968 on, are not as good, obviously, but I'm watching at the moment, and today's mystery guest was Nancy Powers, one of the Kit Kat Band in Cabaret. And as a bonus, she played the title song on her trombone, accompanied by another Kit Kat member on the piano.

She was always a show-off

Nancy in action

Nancy wasn't the mystery guest, just a regular guest.

Bennett Cerf was the mystery guest!

I watched one of the early syndicated episodes hosted by Wally Bruner a few days ago on which the mystery guest was the insult comic Jack E. Leonard, who was about as funny as a cholera epidemic. He was bald but came out wearing a woman's wig, and refused to give a straight answer. After the panel had established that he was a comedian of some sort, he called Arlene "an old bat," which I found sort of shocking. Arlene, to her credit, appeared unruffled and quickly came back with, "Oh, so you're an insult comic."

Oh, so you’re an insult DL poster?

R302, Fat Jack, as he was called, came out donning a wig because the prior contestant’s line was that of a wig salesman for both men & women. Leonard was a frequent guest on the network versions of TTTT & IGaS.

I was prepared to dislike him after reading r302, but I actually found Jackie to be pretty funny. I hadn't seen him before and I don't especially want to see him again, but he was good for the 10 minutes he was on the show

Jack Leonard as panelist

Fat Jack on the Merv Griffin Show.

Was Fat Jack gay? He gives off certain vibes.....

panelist 2

[quote] Was Fat Jack gay? He gives off certain vibes.....

Well, for whatever it means, he was married twice & had children. His generation of Jewish/Yiddish comics liked to act swishy at times, to make fun of fagelas.

Fegele!

Fag!

Sugar Ray has that ugly sexy look.

A mean fuck—the good kind

Jack E panelist 3

Wow Dorothy guessed the egg farmer lady so well.

[quote]Was Fat Jack gay? He gives off certain vibes.....

Those are just fat vibes.

He wasn't just smelling those cookies.

Jack E panelist 4. This episode is referenced in the previous on R315 when John says Margaret Truman will be replacing Dorothy.

It's interesting how some contestants smile when their line is shown to the viewers and others do not.

Well, basically, it's interesting how some people smile and others do not.

They basic.

I just started watching the 1950s episodes, when Buzzr switched to the 1960s/1970s episodes and I was not going to continue, but there is a certain charm to these episodes as well.

Margaret Truman was a dog.

She was a star!

So was Lassie.

[quote]Margaret Truman was a dog.

She was no Amy Carter.

In R319 Jack finally corrects John Daly to tell him his name is JACK E LEONARD.

I liked the sexy nerd Dr. who was doing something or other in a poor place. Arlene was in love. Find that one for me.

Do you mean Dr. Tom Dooley, r329? That's a fascinating segment.

Tom Dooley

yes. he's the epitome of sexy do gooder nerd.

What makes the Dr. especially sexy is he appears to have zero social skills. That can make some people extry cute.

He's gayer than springtime!

Wiki

I can't believe Hollywood hasn't done a big bio film of Dooley's astonishing life.

[quote]I just started watching the 1950s episodes, when Buzzr switched to the 1960s/1970s episodes and I was not going to continue, but there is a certain charm to these episodes as well.

Same here, R323! I figured, "That's it for late-night WML episodes." But I'm enjoying them more than I expected to, maybe because I haven't seen the majority of them. Having Arlene there certainly helps.

Not enjoying the syndicated WML episodes (John Daly was wise to put his foot down on displays), but really liking the syndicated TTTT fare. I wonder why, unlike WML, the earliest years of the syndicated TTTT are not aired on BuzzR. The earliest episodes I’ve discovered aren’t from before 1971.

[quote]In [R319] Jack finally corrects John Daly to tell him his name is JACK E LEONARD.

Daly should've corrected him right back and called him Leonard Lebitsky (his birth name.)

The syndicated WML wastes so much time on exhibitions & “Honest Answers,” that the panel may have maybe only a couple of minutes to discover the identity of the MG. The only redeeming feature of the syndicated show is the segment devoted to guessing the occupation of audience members.

Tiny Tim.

The syndicated WML was broadcast from NY, yes? I wonder if by then, it was harder to get bigger movie stars to appear as the MG.

Who would have been the biggest movie star to appear on the syndicated WML?

I'm waiting....

[quote] Bill Douglas could've been president. He was among the few who were considered by the party to replace Henry Wallace on the dying FDR's 1944 ticket.

To my critic here, Lawrence O'Donnell makes this very point - how FDR wanted to take Douglas off the Supreme Court to be his running mate - while guesting on John Heilemann's most recently dropped podcast.

Thanks for the Tiny Tim clip! Hadn't seen that one before.

Herbert (Tim) was a real musical genius with an encyclopedic knowledge of popular song and old recordings. Like many performers (Jane Mansfield, for example) there was more there than met the eye.

r344 and it didn’t come close to actually happening. 🙄

We're really going to have to find some more engaging episodes than those with Fat Jack E. Leonard and dreary Margaret Truman if this thread is to keep going.

A very handsome and surprisingly short Gene Kelly.

This episode is Jun 23rd 1957, it still shows the antiquated intro animation and music.

The new snazzy intro would debut 3 weeks later.

The 3 Irish chefs from La Choy were fun. But were there really no grains in their food? Rice? Noodles?

The baseball umpire didn't shake anyone's hand when he exited! He just walked past the panel!!

R349, as I recall, you made your own rice to go with La Choy Chow Mein. It did come with a can of chow mein noodles, though (or maybe those were sold separately), but my memories date to the '60s, not the '50s, so maybe then noodles were not yet available in 1957.

Jack E as MG, Liberace on panel.

Do we like the Dutch piano tuner?

So disappointing that Liberace's intro to Dorothy is not on the show which would give her comment to him context.

[quote]Who would have been the biggest movie star to appear on the syndicated WML?

Last night on Buzzr, I saw a syndicated episode on which Olivia de Havilland was the mystery guest. She wasn't guessed correctly until the last minute, after which Arlene kept going on and on to Olivia about having been in touch with Olivia's sister and how she knew Olivia's sister quite well. Didn't Arlene know that Olivia and Joan Fontaine hated each other?

No. She had no idea🙄

There's a funny 1950s episode in which the panel somehow manages to get the MG down to just Olivia and Joan and then there's enormous hesitation as to which one to guess first. It was Joan, but I can't remember if she was the first guess.

Joan Fontaine as MG

I'm still always startled how often the MG was rapidly dismissed after being revealed, as in the case of Ms Fontaine. Not a word of conversation heard from her.

A pity I can't find the 1966 episode where Joan was a panelist.

But here she is in 1972 as another MG

There is a 1950s episode with Guy Madison as MG. I'd like to see that. It is nowhere to be found.

There is only a clip of Martin and Lewis on the same show.

A true lady never signs without her pocketbook close by.

Jack E As MG 1964

the census dog counter looks like Carole Lombard.

good lord look at Dorothy's fucking hair in this episode.

The department store santa claus guy in R365 is cute.

I wonder if the makeup man Dee Darnay is also Dearon Darnay?

Where is the chorus boy from WISH YOU WERE HERE, a Broadway musical that Dorothy's husband Dick produced in 1953?

Alexis Smith

[quote]good lord look at Dorothy's fucking hair in this episode.

Even Arlene's hair seems a little . . . off in that episode. It looks like a wacky combination of two different styles.

Jack E was actually funny in the R365 appearance.

The top ten Arlene moments. This kind of woman on TV doesn't exist anymore and won't ever again.

Were any of Arlene's plays ever a hit? She seemed to be in a new one every other week.

Well, here's a review for "Beekman Place" (1964). Closed after 29 performances.

That's an ouchie.

Arlene has 26 Broadway credits. Don't really recognize any of the titles.

Of her Broadway credits (in which she originated roles) during the WML years, Arlene's ONCE MORE, WITH FEELING, produced by Martin Gabel and co-starring Joseph Cotten, was a moderate hit playing a full season from October to June, probably not a bad run for a straight play back in 1959. Well, 263 performances per IBDB, maybe not a hit.

I thought the all-star 1966 revival of DINNER AT 8 in which Arlene played the Marie Dressler role was a big hit but according to IBDB, it only lasted a few months, 136 performances.

Everything else also just lasted a few months, if that.

Jack E as MG 1967

Back then, R379, if a play ran for a season it was considered a success. In a typical season you might have 90-100 plays open. And most quickly closed. If you could get a couple of hundred performances you were a happy camper. It's only in today's hyper-inflated world that you have to run for years in order to turn a profit.

Thank you, R374. Arlene enjoyed the hell out of being a girl. She was utterly charming, feminine and an accomplished flirt. She's a delight to watch.

Who carried some now-retrograde view of the sexes to be expected of someone born around the turn of the last century.

Jack E as MG in 1968

Do you think the wig designer is gay?

Rainbow hair products!

I just watched a couple of the syndicated episodes (hosted by Larry Blyden) on Buzzr. What was the most important element of the original network series -- the meticulous playing of the game -- has by this point become almost an afterthought. Every segment, including the appearance of the mystery guests, feels terribly rushed. It seems as though no more than a couple of minutes is allowed for each contestant. The questioning seems to have just begun when Blyden is saying, "30 more seconds." All of this is so that lots of time can be spent on demonstrations and mini-competitions involving the panelists, most of which flops and is completely uninteresting. Extra time also seems to have been allotted for Soupy Sales to be annoying.

Alan Alda's bewigged gay advance to Gene Rayburn aint funny.

Ricky Nelson was the prettiest thing that was ever on the show.

Ricky is another MG who barely utters a word before leaving.

I can't hear.

Curf!

What luck Ozzie and Harriet had with having Ricky.

Cute but fucked-up.

He wouldn’t put out for Sheila Kuehl.

Oren Long

Dorothy guessed 3 of the 4 contestants.

r376...

[quote]Arlene Francis blinks her eyes more often than David Brinkley, but his lines are wittier.

Mort Sahl on the panel, Tony Randall as MG

The Tony Randall musical.

That's Abbe Lane in r400's photo, who appeared as a MG with her (then) husband Xavier Cugat.

Bebe Gallini!

I usually hate Tony Randall. A lot. However, on WML I liked him as a panelist.

Watching the BuzzR overnight of the syndicated WML with host Larry Blyden & panelist Jack Cassidy, both of whom would soon die young due to tragic accidents - or worse.

Oh, Captain! was better than its reputation. The cast album is delightful.

Charles Heidsieck

Did Peggy Cass come out of the womb looking matronly?

The bathroom scale man is very smiley.

[quote]Did Peggy Cass come out of the womb looking matronly?

She wasn't cast as the original Agnes Gooch (on stage and screen) for nothing.

Oh, Captain!

Mort Sahl at R399 wasn't conventionally handsome, but he was sexy and virile.

I owe R410 a blow job...

More Mort as panelist.

Catholic Peggy Cass was proudly anti-Nixon & liberal in the early to mid-'70s, but her then-views on abortion & gay people would be outside modern liberalism.

Mort Sahl was sexy but George Montgomery made him look like a gnome.

George and Dinah were friends with Alexis Smith and Craig Stevens.

With benefits?

The young fire hydrant painter at the end of r399 was super-cute! Did y'all not watch until the end??

Also enjoyed the female bull fighter with her hand in a cast.

And what was with that price tag that seemed to land on Arlene's bare shoulder and wouldn't leave?

[quote]George and Dinah were friends with Alexis Smith and Craig Stevens.

Was Dinah a Sally or a Phyllis?

Definitely a Sally.

What you call a price tag is a postage stamp from the samples given to the panel by the paper money printer.

George Montgomery had a hobby as a wood craftsman and taught Craig Stevens how to build furniture.

[quote]Was Dinah a Sally or a Phyllis?

Neither. She was a...Tess.

[quote]George Montgomery had a hobby as a wood craftsman and taught Craig Stevens how to build furnitur

I knew when I was a kid that George Montgomery made furniture because of the commercials he did for Pledge.

r421, thanks. I skipped that segment because the contestant and his job seemed kinda dull.

Mort panelist. Shelley Winters MG

Repeat—repeat^

Who cares at this point? That Shelley Winters MG segment is one of my all-time favorites.

Mort Sahl was not the sharpest player, was he? I'm not sure if it was because he was trying to be funny, but his line of questioning was so peculiar.

Mort

More Mort

They ran out of time so Shelley practically ran off.

That's a good Nixon joke.

Mort as MG in 1961

Harry B was the first black panelist on the show.

^ I didn’t know he was Black. When did he decide he was Black?

the cute lighthouse keeper.

Maurice Evans in Tenderloin.

He also had just done the Scottish play for TV.

Four male nurses.

Maurice Evans seemed to be all over 1950s TV, appearing in adaptations of classic British plays on weeknight and weekend specials. I was too young to watch any of them and thus can't remark on their quality, but he represented how the new and unique power of early television often attempted to educate and enlighten the masses.

It didn't work.

As I've been rewatching so many of these episodes I can help but notice how often the 4th contestant, when there's time for one, often has the most unusual (and therefore amusing) occupation of the evening. But there's always so little time for them to play a full round of questioning.

For example, at r439 it would have been so much more fun to spend more time with the vivacious zipper tester than the young spit-curled Brahmin bull rider or the male nurses.

I agree totally, R441. It seems like such a waste to throw away a good contestant when there's not enough time to play a full round. I wish they had killed that time by either chatting with the panel, or playing some sort of quickie game like guessing the occupations of audience members.

It was a low/energy quiz show—not a study in time management.

But the point is, having 3 contestants for the evening to choose from, why did they always save the best for last? I assume if the 3rd (regular) contestant didn't make it on due to time constraints, they might be invited back for another episode. I wonder if the 3rd contestant was often someone local for that reason.

[quote] It was a low/energy quiz show—not a study in time management.

Very much evident with the syndicated show. Displays/exhibitions, Who's Who, Honest Answers. And often just two minutes for the MG.

Arlene has spent a week with her and still calls her Bet!

An interesting thing about the syndicated shows is that many of the guest occupations would not be so unusual in a few short years. Women in the early '70s were entering many previously male-dominated fields, so the show had a lot of first female teacher at Annapolis, female chauffeurs, female barbers, etc.

In that way, it's a real time capsule of a changing occupational landscape.

R441, I agree as well. The third contestant's occupation is often one that could lead to the funniest questions or most difficult time for the panel.

[quote] I wonder if the 3rd contestant was often someone local for that reason.

Often, but not always, R444. I wonder how many of the out-of-town contestants on WML were in New York for other reasons as well, especially when they came from far away. $50 wouldn't have covered travel expenses from California even in 1950, let alone 1967.

rocket plane test pilots.

Why did so many men just seem so better looking back then?

Because they dressed and behaved like men, not boys.

chicken feed seller.

Albert Hall

THE Albert Hall!