I am afraid Trump might win

Banish "Fear, Uncertainty, Doom" trolls. I'll start with you, OP.

You all are exhausting. I’m visiting my parents and it’s bad enough that my mother had MSNBC on for about 7 hours today and then my parents wanted to talk about Trump when we went out to dinner. Here’s what you should do. Vote and then get a goddam life and go outside and get some fresh air.

Go deport yourself to the Muvaland.

He won’t.

Snap out of it.

Accept, outside of voting early, encouraging others to vote and volunteering, you have no control over the outcome.

There is been an anti-Harris vibe shift. People theorize it is Elon Musk's doing.

-- Last week was very good for her: the Daddy podcast, 60 minutes, was endorsed by the NYTimes as the only patriotic option. So, this is the Trump reaction. -- Musk gives $47 to anyone who can convince a swing voter to vote for Trump and invests money in competitive House races. -- The election betting markets turned against her; even Nate Silver felt that one big wager affected the market. It was an organic change. -- Quinnipiac Poll showed Harris suddenly behind in WI and MI, despite other polls in the WI Marquette showing her pulling away. The Q poll showed the same cross-tabs as Rassmusen and Trafalgar.

So, yeah, it's been scary.

Stranger things have happened R4

Write letters to the editor OP.

Deport IT 👇

Mionritor newspapers in places like Elkhart, Indiana and LaCrosse Wisconsin and make sure liberal views are represented in the comments. It's not about changing the minds of conservative trolls": it's about reaching people who have never heard any different.

OP is Sen. Susan Collins.

She's very "concerned."

How is that even possible??

I hate Trump but have already accepted he is president forever. All I can do is vote and do the next right thing.Democracies fall and it’s about surviving as best I can.

Start studying Italian or Spanish or Japanese.

[quote] I’m scared. What should we do ?

Ask David to hold you, Ann.

Exactly what you are doing, OP: fretfully wring your hands and voice your enormous CONCERN to everyone else!

Nothing could possibly be more helpful!

Just spin this scared energy into something, like battling the vast amounts of misinformation out there. You never know who might believe some of the garbage MAGA locusts like to bleat out on the regular.

Something feels inevitable about Trump winning after all the things that have happened since his term ended where he was written off and yet he seems to keep bouncing back. I think the late breakers will go with him because Kamala has failed to convince them she can improve their economic situation.

[Quote] Start studying Italian or Spanish or Japanese.

apparently, Amy Schumer never learned Spanish

R18 she's going to tax the rich!

Now you're just being silly R18. Nobody likes Trump. His continual lies will convince nobody of anything. With the election less than a month away, the voting has already started and he is definitely not doing well in the early voting.

[quote]Just spin this scared energy into something, like battling the vast amounts of misinformation out there.

One way to do this is to join Twitter Community Notes. You get to "Oh, dear" everybody.

OP, my brother and my son feel the same way. I'll tell you what I tell them. Get out and vote and don't worry about shit that you have no other control of. If he wins we'll deal with it. Just quit worrying about it. It doesn't do any good.

Just remind everyone that in the end we will get the govt we deserve. And if the election ends in the courts or The Court you can then decide that 2016 election had a direct impact on who might win the 2024 election. But no matter we get the govt we deserve,

r24 That's quite a stupid thing to say.

I wouldn't blame yet ads. I'd blame the legacy media.

Again today -

'In Interviews, Kamala Harris Continues to Bob and Weave'

Trump's dodges (to the friendliest surrogates and Fox anchors) are popular memes because they go beyond dodging. They go into 'what the fuck and how is this guy running for POTUS' territory. But the NYT has not reported on any of them, certainly not on the front page.

Yesterday that Patrick Healy wrote about 13 independents 'leaning towards Trump'. 9 years later and they are still doing the Ohio diner by another name! Healy has not written one article that was fair to Harris (or Biden) this year. Stephens wants Harris to do a press conference about houthi rebels and then turn around 3 times while reciting Ulysses backwards to earn his vote. And this is the supposed liberal media.

yet ads, r26

I was on the fence until he started this “FEMA is paying for immigrants' sex changes so they have NO money to help Americans” bullshit. Then FEMA having to create an additional website to counter it. He’s kicked his anti-immigration rhetoric up a notch. and it seems to have landed according to comments on social media.

I just want this shit to be OVER.

The problem with social media is that it is 80% MAGA. If you only read social media, you would think that Trump won the popular vote in the last two elections 9:1. The 2 big MAGA groups are retirees are young men so they have the time to go online 24/7. Then you have the bots and sock puppets.

R25 “if” trump wins in 2024 it will be totally 100% because of what happened in 2016.

So any that-did not vote or wasted their vote or made an anti Clinton vote are the ones who put trump over the top. They made trump.

and if they had not decided, to not vote or vote green , Clinton would have won and absolutely no one would be talking about Donald Trump today.

Trump did not steal the 2016 election, it was not an accident or divine intervention, 2016 election where he took over the courts in a big way that could pay off with the presidency in 2024, it was far to many Americans not giving a fuck.

So yes we get the govt we deserve. It may not be the govt we want. But this all could have been easily been prevented if we had chosen to.

You’re afraid I’ll fart and you’ll miss it

Well....

The delusion among some DLers who believe there’s zero chance that Trump could win, that nobody likes him, is almost in a league with the Trump supporter I read about recently who said Trump would win 80-20 if the Democrats didn’t cheat. Of course he could win. We have real life precedent of that.

[quote]I think the late breakers will go with him because Kamala has failed to convince them she can improve their economic situation.

R18 = MAGA troll.

Trump = Roe vs Wade. Trump and his Project 25 cronies own taking away women's rights. This election (presidential & down ballot) is about saving women's reproductive rights. He'll probably call himself the winner by 9pm EST on 11/5 and will try to cheat - get cases to the Supreme Court. Won't work.

R36, as I recall, there was discussion in Oct. 2012 that Romney would win the popular vote but lose the EC. Enough so, that Trump then decried the evil of the EC system.

One thing I'm sure of is that if the fat slob does win, many of his threats will never come to pass. He's talking big right now just to get the republicans who've abandoned him to vote for him. He will have the power to do some serious damage though, unless the military decides to strap on a pair and deal with him. It's going to be a very uncertain time if he wins.

The spike shown at r36 was because Obama had a weak performance in the first debate. Still, it’s interesting to remember that Republicans thought they had the 2012 election in the bag, but lost by higher margins than either Clinton or Trump in subsequent elections. Of course, the 2014 election ceding many Senate seats to Republicans was the foundation for the MAGA decade to come.

I’m terrified - we have to be brave

I'm getting increasingly nervous.

If he wins, I doubt Trump will finish his term. And Vance scares me more than Trump.

Recently I asked what appeared to be a well educated well spoken minority female server , she was maybe 23 or so m who she was voting for——I told her I was interested in hearing what young people thought.

She gave me a blank look and said—-I have not given it much thought. And I totally believed her.

r42 Wow, what insight - thanks for sharing

R38 says trump can’t do much that is truly bad if he is elected as long as the US military is ready to step in and over thrown democracy for a military take over.

I feel so much fucking better now. Except for the part about down playing how much real and lasting damage DJT could actually do.

He would be on a role that would be terrfying to watch. And many Americans who would support or encourage each and every democracy dem liberal killing thing he would do.

I doubt r42 ever happened, but if a stranger asked me who I was voting for, I'd probably tell them to fuck right off.

r45 Same - how obnoxious to ask that

The funny thing is that I was nervous during both of Obama's campaigns. I was nervous during Biden's, and I'm nervous now about Kamala. The funny thing was, I wasn't nervous during Hillary's. Maybe that's why I crawled up in a ball the day after she lost.

R18 I kinda know what you mean. He just can’t win though. He just can’t. He can’t. He must defeated. He must.

R29 right you nailed it. And that’s why it’s so dangerous. And that’s why he is still polling so high. Trump is doing better with young people than a candidate with his positions should be doing. They’re so ignorant. I don’t mean that as insult. They all get their news from social media. How did we let this happened. We’re fucked. Most youth are not Columbia or Georgetown undergrads. We’re fucked. And then we can’t pass laws because it’s like Orwellian. America is completely fucked in this regard. How did England avoid this?

Unfortunately young people of today are impressed with tough talkers. They're ignorant or what voting for someone like that would mean for them in the long run. That's one of the biggest problems we have in our voting system. Allowing the mentally inferior the right to vote.

He’s going to tank markets and cause instability, and it’s middle class pensions that’ll suffer. We’ll all be working til we’re, well, his age.

We’re blaming young people? Let’s recall who actually voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020. It was not the TikTokkers.

I get it DL has posters that have said they would be afraid to approach potential voters to ask about the election because they might run into GOP or MAGA types and that would scare them. Nothing screams I am a fucking pussy and gutless more than a statement like that.

If you want to know what young people are thinking about the election then fucking ask them. That makes more sense than listening to the consistently same comments coming from within the bubble we call the DL.

I have never, outside of close friends/family, discussed someone's potential vote in a Presidential election, r53, unless I was actively canvassing for a candidate as a campaign volunteer.

Sorry, asking random people who they are voting for crosses a line for me. It's almost the political equivalent of asking strangers, "Have you been saved?"

I work hard to not make any assumptions about important things, like national elections. Mainly because in 71 years of life I have learned that when important things are about to happen, things rarely turn out the way you think they're going to turn out, especially when you think the worst.

r54 Seriously, that's considered so fucking uncouth here in Europe, glad r53 seems to be the outlier. I know Americans put yard signs and car stickers up for elections, which also isn't a thing here, but that doesn't mean you can just ask any random person who they're voting for, unless you're a reporter and doing a segment on the street. Gross.

R42, if that’s real, shame on you. She is dependent on tips including yours, not exactly a position of power and the ability to be honest. I would have answered similarly if I were in her shoes.

I will be pissed if Pennsylvania goes for Trump. They will have blood on their hands.

She was not dependent on my tips because she worked the front desk. I have talked to her at least 10-12 times in the past so she was not a stranger on the street. We actually had a short discussion. And unlike DL she seemed to have no problem of me asking what she thought about the election.

My guess is that she is more typical than not of youngsters her age. Just not as politically engaged as the yackers on the DL are.

[quote]well educated well spoken minority female

Your slip is showing

Thank you for posting this OP.

After Biden stepped down, I believed Kamala would win and believed that until this week.

I’m not sure what changed. Maybe the polls, maybe the media, maybe the vibe…but for the first time since August….i think Trump might win again.

I’m terrified. I know it won’t end well for gay people.

It never does.

He really only has to win Pennsylvania. I think he will. And I hate it.

R57 If she were a smart ho, she would have gaged that this was a nosy, mincing eldergay and quickly stated Kamala Harris. She also would have mentioned that Tim Walz makes the best hot dish this side of the Mississippi. But she didn’t and missed out on a $50 tip.

"Trump just unleashed a long, ugly, crazed rant about Kamala Harris. He called her “stupid” and “low IQ,” called her a liar, and said she’s being manipulated by communists and fascists and, in his words, “an enemy within.” As far as I can tell, almost no leading journalists even took notice, which gets at a larger story: Trump regularly attacks Harris with vile, deeply unhinged unapologetically misogynistic rants, and barely anyone reacts anymore. It’s just Trump being Trump. It’s just not news. Trump doesn’t even act as if he needs to win over women anymore, and apparently no one thinks that’s strange." -Greg Sargent

‘’Don’t you understand mother-half the people are going to die!’’

R65 Not the better half.

As of the past 7 days or so, I'm suddenly not feeling optimistic about a Harris/Walz victory. I hope to God I'm wrong and I'm ready to cast my ballot during early voting.

I'm writing postcards in PA, I hope PA goes for Harris

[quote] Banish "Fear, Uncertainty, Doom" trolls. I'll start with you, OP.

Yeah, that approach always works best.

r30: I will never forget Hillary's warning: "I'm the one thing standing between you and the apocalypse."

Harris is still favored to win, although the polls are tightening up. She has to deal with a barrage of negative campaign ads and Republicans doing their usual fear and distortion tactics. But I do think she will win because undecided voters will break to her closer to the election. There will be no similar groundswell for Trump. He's a dead man walking. Americans don't want to go backwards or have a mad man in charge.

Glad I’ve already lived my life w/o a dictator-enjoy Trump Gen-xer’s and y & z and all the little people who live in this land.

The early vote is very promising. It's heavily Dem and it's way ahead of 2020 already. Trump will need massive turnout on election day to catch up and overtake. Keep an eye on the early vote over the next few weeks.

[quote] Banish "Fear, Uncertainty, Doom" trolls.

Yeah, that always ends well.

remember - the GOP will ALWAYS frame anything with a lie, and repeat it until it sticks. ALWAYS counter with not the lie (don't even repeat what the GOP says) but the truth. "harris has clear policy issues", "Harris has given great interviews" - DON'T like the GOP Disinformation campaign get the upper hand

I have had to make weekly trips to Montgomery County, PA. A traditional Republican stronghold in the Philly burbs. One of the things I’ve noticed on my route through Moncto is the number of Kamala law signs far outnumber the Trump signs - basically two my entire ride. While this is anecdotal, there is way less Trump enthusiasm.

I do think the polls are overestimating his support. That’s just my gut. I also think the media wants a horse race and will push that narrative to keep nervous eyeballs glued to their screens.

That said, I am still cautious because none of it matters if you don’t vote.

I'm still optimistic enough to believe Harris will win.

[quote] I do think the polls are overestimating his support.

The problem is that we've never seen that with Trump on the ballot.

USA underestimated how many haters this country had till Jan.6. We’ve been living in that fools paradise. Empires that accepted homosexuality usually fell.

[quote] I'm still optimistic enough to believe Harris will win.

The correct answer for Harris supporters is that they hope Harris will win, but for this election there’s no way for anyone to know ahead of time who will win.

I'm with you OP; I was in central VA last week & saw lots of Trump signs, not so many Harris signs. That said, Dump supporters tend to be more aggressive, in your face, whereas I think a lot of people who don't want trouble will quietly vote for Harris. But I wake up in the middle of the night in a sweat over this too

You should help Harris/Walz win then!

Do something. Hand wringing is so unsexy.

R73 -- How do you know this? Is it data from exit polling for the early voters?

R82 Conservatives love flags and signs.

R84 My question too. Receipts please, R73.

President Biden's damning comments about Trump yesterday will have influence.

What worries me is that Black men in my gym are not enthusiastic about Harris. And don’t shoot the messenger.

You can track absentee ballots requested by party. In Pennsylvania, only 9% were requested by Rs. 25% by Dems and 19% Independent.

Hold me, Senator Collins...

r89, right, the GOP in general distrusts the whole voting process, mail in voting in particular

Black women will likely save us again. Except for Fat Janet.

Create 127 Trump threads per day. That should help.

Black men at the gym are as disillusioned as Palestinian protesters who are going to "sit this one out." If Trump wins they deserve everything that's coming to them.

R88 I know, they are not enthusiastic about her everywhere. Some of my cousins are but we were raised to love democrats and family members were friendly with Brooklyn politicians.

OK. Thanks Bernice.

I was very optimistic about Harris winning until the last few days. Checked the polls and Trump is now ahead in Pennsylvania and Michigan.

R92 I think women in general are going to save us from the orange turd. There are lot of centrist white women just fed up with Trump.

It's out of your control so move on.

I think a lot of younger millenial and gen Z black males have become jaded since Obama. Someone needs to school them. I do whenever I can. The Obama presidency was never going to eradicate racism and the legacy of chattel slavery. Only routine civic participation can do that.

LOL

Your only post, r97?

[quote] Checked the polls and Trump is now ahead in Pennsylvania and Michigan.

Link, please, as to Pennsylvania. The most recent polls, even yesterday's otherwise disappointing Quinnipiac poll had Harris up 3 in Pennsylvania.

R102 My whole thing is someone has to have their first comment at some point. Doesn’t mean they’re trolling.

r97 is a troll, r103.

She had like a 14% approval rating. Even Datalounge loathed her. What did you expect was going to happen? She can't not campaign or do interviews but then when she's does them it only digs her hole deeper. You can hiss at me all you want but that's the fucking truth. Those accents. I just can't. They've done more damage to her campaign than anything or anyone else could.

[quote] Link, please, as to Pennsylvania. The most recent polls, even yesterday's otherwise disappointing Quinnipiac poll had Harris up 3 in Pennsylvania.

If Trump wins Wisconsin and Michigan, he could lose Pennsylvania, plus either Arizona or North Carolina, and still win. So not necessarily all about Pennsylvania.

R106 She has had ferocious energy and charm since hitting the campaign. And she’s mad pretty. Kamala completely energized women and young people.

[quote] She has had ferocious energy and charm since hitting the campaign. And she’s mad pretty. Kamala completely energized women and young people.

That means she would have to motivate even more of her base to turn out to make up for the votes she’s shedding from that campaigning.

Is that why she has to bus people in to rallies? You're delusional. Especially the young people part.

Whatever, R106/Boris. She ain't Trump. That's enough for me.

Older boomers and women of all ages are going to decide this election. They know that man is simply unfit. She will win.

It's true she previously ran a lackluster campaign & she was practically invisible as a VP. But in a weird way, it worked in her favor because it enabled her to distance herself from Joe since she always seemed out of synch with the Bidens. She's the devil we know at this point, but she's way exceeded everyone's expectations and she doesn't have that - I don't know that I can describe - off-putting way of Hilary.

So am I, but I think we’ll probably survive.

Harris/Walz is the best ticket of my lifetime. Smart, tough empathetic, engaging, funny. Compare that to an idiot narcissist rapist and his right hand man who is cosplaying Commander Fred Waterford from The Handmaid's Tale.

MAGA is loud. So loud. In the same way that anti vaxxers were loud. There are also a ton of very rich people keeping the bot industry alive- in order to sway voters to the right.

Volunteer and vote and we will win.

While some polls are close...Trump is acting like he is going to lose. That gives me hope. He is throwing out bat shit crazy stuff now.

Best ticket of your lifetime? She’s not that smart or that charismatic. Saying she can’t think of a thing she would do differently from Biden was a dumb answer. And Walz is something of a dud. He let Vance look reasonable and likeable in the debate.

[quote] She's the devil we know at this point

The problem is that to the American people, Trump is also a devil they know, so they’re having to choose between the two candidates.

The fact that this is even close means that we have lost in the larger sense. Forty-something percent of the country thinks Trump should be president after everything his done! Even if Kamala wins, we still live in a country with this many delusional, hateful idiots.

Is r117 posting from the FOX News studio?

R119 I know. I know I know. Shit is sad and just bleak as fuck. I almost want to take a vacation to London and just stay there. Do they jail you in England BEFORE they deport you.

No. From reality.

Clearly he/she is R120.

Vance is a very skilled liar but Walz scored higher among independents who watched the debate. I have also seen Walz's instagram grow from under 500K followers to 2million in a very short space of time. Folks like him - a lot. He is the most popular of all four candidates.

R119 I have a soft spot for delusional hateful idiots. DL is full of them. The left is full of them.But your point is spot on. Trump could win because a whole shit load of americans either want to see him president or at least not her.

The 2028 election will be the most important election of your life, followed by 2032 and then 2036 and…..

It’s never going to end all they have to do is one sweeping win sometime in the coming decades. The right is never going away amd it’s not likely they will never be a significant political force in the life time of everyone alive today. Trump is a bozo. The others will likely be a lot smarter and actual true believers. And they are tougher and more prone to action in order to win.

In time today will be seen as the good old days

R123 The democrats would probably be popular again if they promoted more white guy like Walz to be honest.

Anyone remember how the media demonized Howard Dean as a lunatic for his impassioned and fiery speech during the 2004 primaries. Now we have an actual fucking lunatic and these cunts have put him on a pedestal for 8 yrs.

I am not sure why people say the best of two bad choices. Harris is qualified. Much more than Trump. Much more than probably the last three republican presidents. And no one governs alone - except Trump, She is a good speaker, a good debator (she made trump look like a fool) with a solid reputation in politics. Hell Hillary was the best candidate ever and she lost to this baffoon. You can say 50% of the country wants Trump, but the truth is 50% of the country are morons who should not be able to vote.

And no one governs alone - except Trump

Right 😂

[quote]You can say 50% of the country wants Trump

When did he win the popular vote?

R128 In never never land.

You don’t have to be posting from Fox News to say this is not the strongest ticket in our lifetimes. In fact, it’s probably the weakest since Kerry/Lieberman. But we had no choice. She’s smarter than Trump, but she’s no Obama.

[quote]Forty-something percent of the country thinks Trump should be president after everything his done!

The Quinnipiac poll of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania showed that 53% of voters in MI and WI believe that Trump would be better than Harris in handling the economy. In Pennsylvania, Trump has a plurality at 49% for the issue. The percentage saying they will vote for him is slightly less, showing that there is some effect, causing people who think he would be better to still not support him.

Too true R125. To me Walz is a bit like Bernie but more moderate and without the baggage. Walz is just nicer and he is SO relatable. If Democrats keep putting forward people like Newsom or Booker and expect them to win on a national scale - they are done for. They need more relatable people.

Many will disagree but I think that AOC has a huge future in the party for that very reason. She is honing her political chops beautifully. I work with Gen Z and to a lot of them she is *the politician* that actually excites them.

If you are a man she is no Obama. If you are a woman - she is better IMO.

[quote] The democrats would probably be popular again if they promoted more white guy like Walz to be honest.

Trust me, if Kamala loses, the Democrat's presidential primary/caucuses will have a 'no women need apply' posting.

Sending Bernie out as a progressive point person is repulsive. Bernie is so 2015...

I’m befuddled by how the media was able to turn Biden into a decrepit, non-verbal, tapioca-eating geriatric, yet Trump gets a total free pass on his inability to string together a coherent sentence or answer any question in a responsive way or utter anything even remotely resembling the truth. Trump is nearly 80 and is showing clear signs of mental decline that are as bad or worse than Biden’s clear signs of decline.

[quote]I’m befuddled by how the media was able to turn Biden into a decrepit, non-verbal, tapioca-eating geriatric

If you were awake during the Biden administration, you would have seen that the media did the opposite, attempting to knock down any claim of that. It was specifically the Trump-Biden debate that blew the lid off, and from that point forward the media could no longer hide or ignore it.

It didn't help that Biden's senior moment(s) occurred on the biggest stage.

Each election cycle people fall for media and poll manipulation every time. People rightly assume the media needs and wants a horse race narrative. Yet, with robotic predictability, they'll still obsess over every incremental poll movement (as dictated by ludicrous poll models and the media interpretations of those polls by companies with agendas of their own.) Trump could be walking away with this election, and you'd still get a horse race narrative. If I had to make a wild guess based on media manipulation patterning, I'd say Harris is doing significantly better than expected because of the recent uptick in and onslaught of negative media and poll movement analysis alluding to her losing support and momentum. Almost voting time so yep, it's time to push people back into frightened/panic mode so they continue to follow the narrative being manufactured. Manufactured fear, outrage, and hostile engagement are the lifeblood components of today's media. (Look at the hysterical Hurricane Milton coverage for a very recent example). The only results that matter are those from actual votes and those results are not available until election day. People know this intellectually, but they're not integrating this knowledge if they're still reacting to media manipulation. Maybe avoid mainstream media for a while. Maybe avoid reading every single poll update or analysis. Maybe avoid the conspicuously slanted news coverage. Give yourselves a respite, a break, and do something nice for yourselves instead of steeping in fear and anxiety, scrolling through endless dire prediction trends.

R137 100% spot on. But I will agree with that poster that since this past summer Trump IS showing signs of mental decline. Not quite Biden debate and that whole 2 weeks of gaffes but he is getting up there and it’s showing. He even hesitates now with his insults. It’s very noticeable. He’s old old now.

[quote]Trump IS showing signs of mental decline. Not quite Biden debate and that whole 2 weeks of gaffes

Sure, Jan.

to summarize r139 - if it bleeds, it ledes

this is primarily why the press loves trump so fucking much he wrecks havoc every time he speaks

R141 I think we’re agreeing with each other essentially.

What most of you fail to realize here is that the majority of the government that can really have a profound effect on your lives are made up of unelected bureaucrats. If you become ensnared in the criminal justice system because you unknowingly violated some stupid regulation, some unelected judge is going to punish you for violating some regulation that was enacted by another unelected bureaucrat in some government agency. There is an egregious lack of accountability in these federal agencies and this is true regardless of which party is in the White House. What happens when your rights are violated by a federal agency? Everyone in a position of oversight looks the other way and allows it to happen.

[quote]There is an egregious lack of accountability in these federal agencies and this is true regardless of which party is in the White House.

you got to be kidding me, blocked

[quote]Here’s what you should do. Vote and then get a goddam life and go outside and get some fresh air.

another quote form the troll. hope this one gets her car sideswiped

R145 Do you honestly believe that Queen Kamala is going to snap her fingers and change the internal culture of every federal agency? God, you’re naive.

Regardless of whether Trump is cognitively as bad as Biden or worse than Biden or even in slightly better shape than Biden (ha!), it does not get covered at all. The media — and I mean the real, trustworthy media like the NYT and major networks — will report on a rally or speech Trump gave or an interview he gave to some right-wing grotesque. Rather than report the wild incoherence and totally lunacy of what Trump has said, the media will try to collate and put into logical terms the overall message he’s trying to convey. They keep sane-washing what is an absolutely abnormal situation. They normalize behavior from him that would have any other politician thrown out of office and into the booby-hatch. He’s only able to speak in Adolph Hitler MadLibs nowadays, but on the six o’clock news I’m going to hear about his “strong messaging on immigration” or his “pointed critique of Harris’s record on the economy”.

If “what lie was told” was a comment. Thank you r148.

R145/R146 As irritated as I am with you right now, I truly hope that you never ever have to learn for yourself how wrong you are.

Why do we never hear about Trump being a Russian secret asset any more?

I mean, it seems important that Americans don't elect a traitorous agent for an enemy power a SECOND time, doesn't it?

Or was all that all complete bullshit?

Vote, then don't worry about it. If he turns out to be worse the second time around as some fear, then you will have to react to it then. Otherwise, it's four years of a second Trump term, then someone else.

I don't even understand the question tbh. People like thinking they have more power over things than they do, I guess.

So my theory is that the mainstream traditional media knows it’s on its sad last days. They think they can’t completely turn against Trump because a large part of the electorate still supports him due to his presence on social media during the 4 years after losing the election. And even larger percentage of the country hates liberals and government. Also just for the record—Outside of Fox News they aren’t ALL liberals on those corporate boards and decision making producers. Some of those folks are republicans and always have been. I’m guessing a sizeable portion are never Trump type republicans but not all of them. We have to be realistic.

R152 Most people think they have more power than they do. Why do you think my mother spends 8 hours a day watching MSNBC and then another 4 talking about Trump? What is that changing? Nothing. But somehow she thinks that “being informed” by spending all day listening to people talk about Trump somehow makes her superior and that she “cares more” about the country than everyone else. Me, I just vote and then forget about it and go on with my life. And the outcome is exactly the same.

Maybe you missed it, r151

r27 I think he means "yeti ads." They're not called Abominable Snowmen for nothing, you know.

You aren't fooling anybody, r151.

[quote] As of the past 7 days or so, I'm suddenly not feeling optimistic about a Harris/Walz victory. I hope to God I'm wrong and I'm ready to cast my ballot during early voting.

That's because you are in the middle of a massive disinformation whirlpool. Yesterday, several accounts I follow on Twitter talked about how scared they felt suddently.

It's been 30 days. Both sides are readying their final push. Social media is overwhelmed by bots and trolls telling outrageous lies. Boy Elon is working overtime with his money and tech tools. In Penn, both Obama and Fetterman are campaigning.

I'm staying off social media, there is no sense in being bombarded by that stuff. Vote and worry about what you can control.

Alas, with good reason, OP. Good God.

CNN and NY Times are the Trump show 24/7. For instance, Bidens calling out of the hurricane lies was buried by the NY Times after a few hours of running it as a minor story. Meanwhile, the polling stories will sit "above the fold" all day.

Sadly, R160, while polling IS news, Trump's deranged rants are white noise after all these years. No longer "above-the-fold" news.

[quote]above-the-fold

Is that what he’s calling the area above Melania’s gunt?

Well with Trump, always assume lying r159, so I'm guessing those "internal polls" are all entirely crafted to give him the fake results he's asked for.

R159 the only thing that makes me feel better is that it was a mix of “landlines and cellphones”

Nobody but old people have landlines and they vote Republican anyway (nothing new)

Younger people (myself included) don’t answer unknown numbers so I don’t know how accurate these polls actually are.

R164 That’s not true. My dad and stepmom have a landline but they bougie, ghetto but bougie.

Harris was supposedly doing well with older people.

R166 I keep hearing that too. I think a lot of regular pre-Maga republicans just realize Trump must be defeated. Trump introduced new people to the electorate. Not in a dramatic way but an important one.

Kamala is going to win, OP

If you just look at the MSN home page, it is an aggregate of other news sources. It is TRUMP AHEAD 18 POINTS. HARRIS AHEAD IN SWING STATES. IT IS AN UTTER TIE.....

[quote]What most of you fail to realize here is that the majority of the government that can really have a profound effect on your lives are made up of unelected bureaucrats.

And Trump has announced plans to replace all those unelected bureaucrats with loyalists.

Just not feeling it, R168. That he's doing as well as he seems to be doing after all that he's done is definitely not a good sign.

So has Vance. Vance will do it too when Trump keels over or gets taken out.

[quote]Just not feeling it

You do you, r171.

R151 you don’t think nsa was aware of what was said in those Putin Trump phone calls all of them. If there was any evidence of Trump being an actual Russian asset I would assume he would be charged by now unless that arrest is to be the mother of all October surprises.

I realize that is too much to hope for

[quote]If there was any evidence of Trump being an actual Russian asset I would assume he would be charged by now

Have you been in a coma, r174?

Trump in Detroit today:

R175 I will admit with the flurry of news that constantly bombards us I do forget things. But as far as I know trump was never charged by the US Govt with being a Russian asset. That’s treason.

Trump would say no asset here it was just two forward thinking world leaders who see the world the same way and will work as great allies if trump is re-elected.

R176 Yet if Kamala said that shit the media would say she was bashing working class whites. Damn double standard.

Re the link to R176, why then does he "love the uneducated"?

Donald J Trump, a very stable genius: I have more complaints on grocery. The word grocery. You know, it's sorta simple word, but it sorta means like everything you eat. The stomach is speaking. It always does. And, uh, I have more complaints about that. Bacon and things going up.

I love it , here we are years into the time of trump , and people are still asking serious questions about trump not making sense or his double standards or his saying things that make no sense or are outright lies.

There will be smarter, meaner, tougher, more vicious to come after Trump , but Trump may go down in history as the most unique American politician ever. No one before or after will ever be quite like DJT. He is like a truly unique force of nature .

Not may but will no question

Apologies for referring to the Kerry/Lieberman ticket, which of course never happened. It was Kerry/Edwards. Talk about a political black hole.

R183 Remember about a decade later when the video hit that showed Edwards eating pussy that wasn’t his wife’s. Repubs tried to make a big thing about that.

[quote] R151] you don’t think nsa was aware of what was said in those Putin Trump phone calls all of them

They use anonymous burner phones. They’re not stupid. They don’t want either of their governments or third party governments listening.

R171-sadly we agree. That a life long criminal has a following of 80 million plus has convinced me that he’s won or if close or tie Trump Supreme Court will put this kid-fucker in the White House forever.

Obama to speak at 7 pm ET tonight and that’s great-I will watch but it’s too little too late.

Meh, despair is not warranted. The people who are despairing enjoy despairing, for whatever psychological reasons that are best known to them.

I do not find their despair remotely convincing.

Despair is certainly warranted. After the insurrection, Trump should be dead politically and in prison. Instead he may get another term in office. That’s is fucking depressing.

And why is Obama speaking on October 10th "too little too late" for an election on November 5. Why are people on the Democratic side always ready to give up in advance. Why is that?

R190 It’s actually perfect timing. Had he started too soon it would just have become the Obama show and weakened KH. Because it’s not like he would start in September and then stop campaigning this month. It had to be strategic timing.

Ditto R189. Trumpers don’t care if he’s out of it mentally. They want what MAGA is-

R188 You are absolutely right, although this statement will set everyone off on DL. My mother watches MSNBC all day long. And when she’s not doing that, she’s talking about Trump. And she says she’s worried about the country, but the truth is that she’s addicted to the drama. So is everyone on DL. I’ve learned in therapy that there is no point in worrying about things you can’t control.

Not giving up- voting but facing reality and trying to prepare.

‘’Oh why can’t we all just get along’’

To me, the most devastating ads the Democrats/Harris have been running have been the ones where former cabinet members of Trumps first administration denounce him and/or say they won't vote for him. And the most prominent one of those is Mike Pence, Trump's own pick for vice-president and Trump's running mate.

When your former business/political partner now wants nothing to do with you, shouldn't that be telling you, i.e. the American voter something? At the same time, why isn't this resonating with the American voter? Why are 80 million American voters willing to overlook the fact that Trump's former vice-president/running mate thinks he's a dirtball scumbag and wants nothing to do with him? Shouldn't that be telling these idiot voters something, and if so, why are these people so willing to ignore it? I simply don't understand this mindset.

[quote]There will be smarter, meaner, tougher, more vicious to come after Trump , but Trump may go down in history as the most unique American politician ever. No one before or after will ever be quite like DJT. He is like a truly unique force of nature .

Watch out, R181. If he wins, Trump might offer you a cabinet position just for saying that.

R196 it's very easy to understand. They want to "get the libs". They are filled with grievance, fear and hate and they like the troll who dishes low-brow venom at the libs.

It’s true that listening only to MSNBC will convince you that Trump actually will accomplish every horrible thing he or Project 2025 says they want to do, while listening to Fox will convince you that Trump will bring sunshine and rainbows. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

But that doesn’t mean people who are worried are addicted to drama and are wrong to worry. Ignoring global warming and giving the fossil fuel industry whatever it wants is something to worry about. So is rounding up and deporting tens of millions of people. So is 2 or 3 more young radical conservatives on the Supreme Court. So is Putin having carte blanche in the former Soviet Empire.

A lot is actually at stake.

R185 NSA can’t hear what the Russians are saying because Russians use burner phones?

R199 I didn’t say they are wrong to worry. I said that spending 12-15 hours a day thinking about it is insane. What does this accomplish?

[quote]They want to "get the libs".

They've been conditioned to, r198.

There is one Trump troll on the loose. Block him and all of the posts licking Trump's wrinkled taint disappear.

Why does worrying have to “accomplish” anything?

We’re not ‘’addicted to drama’’ we’re concerned about current and coming events that could wipe out civil rights. Too many Trump Trolls onboard.

[quote] It’s true that listening only to MSNBC will convince you that Trump actually will accomplish every horrible thing he or Project 2025 says they want to do, while listening to Fox will convince you that Trump will bring sunshine and rainbows. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

The truth is probably much closer to MSNBC than Fox, though, but IF Trump wins. But my problem with people despairing isn't that Trump isn't a terrible person, but that nobody has any business giving up on the election itself. The idea that the polls are tight, and THEREFORE Kamala will definitely lose is what is silly. Not the idea that Trump truly is a disgusting piece of shit. Democrats LOVE despairing about elections, we fucking love it, and it's ridiculous and we should stop that shit. What tight polls show clearly is that Kamala has a very strong possibility of winning this, nothing more, nothing less. People who despair tend to shut down and give up. There is no reason for that.

R197 just to be fair I likely would have thought the same about Hitler and Stalin . OK I can see how trump might see that as even more flattery as well.

R204 I think the bigger question is why do you want to live your life this way? Does it make you feel superior to worry all the time?

Trump isn’t a politician-He’s a MAGA tool with a big fat mouth.

r206 I don't "love" despairing about elections, and I am not despairing about this one yet. However, I was deeply traumatized (yes, MARY!!!) by Trump's win in 2016, having been very confident in Clinton's chances until election night, and I feel now it's best to err on the side of caution in such matters.

[quote] Democrats LOVE despairing about elections, we fucking love it,

You know what we love even more than despair? A comfortable lead in the polls. Like the 10-15% lead we should have if this election were not being polluted by foreign interests, Rupert Murdoch’s lies, and sinister billionaires unleashed by a cynical Supreme Court

you gals are nuts.

[quote]Trump may go down in history as the most unique American politician ever.

Oh really?

Cynical is an understatement, r211.

[quote]I simply don't understand this mindset.

R196 America has a disproportionate number of idiots, bigots and angry people who refuse to accept the realities of a changing country and world. They long for the time when they had more power and influence. Everyone else was considered "less than" or "inferior." What they ultimately need is a bitch slap telling them to, "Snap out of it, we aren't going back and you will not destroy the country just because you can't cope!"

We can deliver that much needed bitch slap through the ballot box by voting for Kamala Harris and supporting the only major political party in the country that isn't a cult of personality. The sane can stop this delusional bullshit by keeping them out of power and government.

I don't understand who is being polled. And I feel like the questions are very skewed to favor Trump in all of them. Are we in a huge PSYOP game? None of this is normal. None of it seems plausibly real.

[quote]However, I was deeply traumatized (yes, MARY!!!) by Trump's win in 2016,

Yet you gloss over 2020, r210.

What did I gloss over, r217? 2024 seems much closer to 2016 than it does to 2020.

Move to a liberal state that won't put us in jail

R215 is partly why I get annoyed by the extreme far left. I’m a gay white man who is in a long term relationship with a wonderful Asian man. I have no problem with non-white people getting ahead and finally getting opportunities, and I think that’s a good thing. What I do have a problem with is people like you assuming that because I’m white I must be some bigoted asshole who wants to hold everyone else back. This is an extremely reductive point of view, and for much of the white population, extremely inaccurate.

The poll business is just that - a business. It is always going to be close with them because that means more polls are needed. We will never see a poll that doesn't show a horse race because that is bad for business for the entire election industrial complex. Same reason we'll never see a 3 month election cycle.

Read someone recently (I think it was Heather Richardson Cox referencing the pollster she most trusted?) who said... ignore the polls, look at which each campaign is doing... that's the best measure of the state of the race.

Might Trump win? Yep. Might Harris win? Even more likely. David Plouffe said today, "the race is tight, but Trump is at his ceiling, Harris has access to more voters. I'd much rather be in Harris's position than Trump's."

R220: please take your gay white self, along with your Asian husband, to a KKKLan rally. Make sure you let them know you're both gay AND a couple.

Then get back to us and let us know your opinion of the extreme far right. That is, if both of you manage to get out alive.

But then, I think your problem with the extreme far left has more to do with the fantasy world you've apparently created for yourselves.

Good words

I’d rather be in any position with Rob Marciano-now on CBS

R199 will he accomplish everything in 2025? Probably not.

Germans in 1932-1933 thought the same thing.

If you went up to a random German on the street and said, “In 10 years do you think the German people will send millions of Jews on trains to east Poland and gas them and nobody will stop it?” They would say you were crazy!

It happens

R223 is a far left kook who just proved R220 right.

Trump is stupid and cruel.

He can't beat Kamala. So he has to get rid of her. An October surprise(s) or Russian hackers or an assassination. Or all of the above. His posse is working night and day on cheating.

Yes I’m sure his ‘’People’’ are planning to harm Harris. Hope she also keeps a gun in her handbag.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that R223 has blue lips and eats bananas.🍌

R196

Dallas, The Sopranos, and Hip-Hop

Trump is gna lose, I’m sure of it. But really this was the repubs election to lose because of the economy. And I’m only talking public perception of the economy. Inflation is real however and no matter how good the job market, when shit is too fucking expensive for working class people to survive they want change. Democrats better be lucky so many Magas infiltrated the GOP because had a regular Repub won that nomination, KH might be in deep shit.

Harris/Walz 24

Guys, watch this video on 1.5 playback. It's only 8 minutes long but it makes some excellent points. And I'm oddly attracted to this man.

Thanks R234 helpful info. I remember David Shuster-had a show on MSNBC years ago.

Obama is on right now. He looks great. So much swag still.

Link:

But did we ever see his dick? that’s important.

[quote] I don't understand who is being polled. And I feel like the questions are very skewed to favor Trump in all of them.

Blaming the polls - like blaming the refs - is what losers do. If Harris's internals were as rosyish as Trump's, they'd be released, too.

Staggeringly loony lies. He just makes stuff up now, and embellishes the lies with each speech.

[quote]Blaming the polls - like blaming the refs - is what losers do. If Harris's internals were as rosyish as Trump's, they'd be released, too.

Trump’s entire campaign is built on lies, so forgive me if I don’t take his polls seriously.

I’m more worried about the return of the BLM riots if he wins.

[quote]If he turns out to be worse the second time around as some fear, then you will have to react to it then.

Not for me. If he wins, then that's it for me. No more marching. No more volunteering. No more donating. I'm tired of these death match elections where you have to beg Democrats to vote and who aren't willing to put in the work with down-ballot candidates to help a democratic president get shit done. I'm tired of pleading with moderates and independents in swing states to do the right thing. I'm tired of white people who vote against their own interests and black people who shit on the work of people who got hosed and chased by dogs and murdered to be able to vote by staying at home. And you Latinos who are leaning towards voting for him, that vote won't make you white white.

I'm a single gay man who never plans to get married and who will never have to get an abortion or some female health procedure. I have a few dollars in the bank and own my home. I don't get on the wrong side of cops and have excellent health care. None of Trump's shit is going to affect me. Who sits on the Supreme Court will barely make a dent in my life.

If the price of eggs will cause you to vote for a criminal. If the Vice President not doing interviews with legacy media outlets, or you don't like her position on Palestine, or you're bothered by her record as a prosecutor, causes you to sit this one out. Then enjoy President Trump and the clown show he'll bring to DC and see what that gets you and fuck you.

R242 Does that stand for Blue Lipped Monkeys?

R244 Give it a rest asshole.

[quote] Trump’s entire campaign is built on lies, so forgive me if I don’t take his polls seriously.

Point taken, but no one on our side is calling out the veracity of these polls ... or offering counter-internal polling.

Life is expensive. It’s hard to raise a family on $50k a year. For the past four years, we’ve heard the word “inflation” a dozen times an hour on any news broadcast. It’s armed low information voters with an intellectual-sounding buzzword to blame for the fact that life is expensive. And since the buck stops at the president’s desk, he is responsible for life being expensive.

Gas and groceries are as cheap now as when Trump took office. The average 401(k) is up double-digit percentages since he left office. But somehow it’s somehow the sitting vice president’s fault that it’s hard to make ends meet working a couple minimum wage jobs.

Trump has a cult but there are not enough of them to get him elected.

R247 Life has always been expensive and getting more expensive all the time. That’s why you work your ass off and acquire new skills and more education and move up. You can’t spend your whole life working at a gas station and waiting for the president to make gas and groceries cheaper. That’s idiotic.

[quote]What they ultimately need is a bitch slap telling them to, "Snap out of it, we aren't going back and you will not destroy the country just because you can't cope!"

Yeah, that'll work.

243 you say none of his stuff will effect you.

Do u use Grindr? Gay sex is legal now. That may not always be the case. It could also be retroactively illegal as well.

Hundreds of thousands of gay men were gassed in the Nazi camps. Read about the pink triangle.

They thought Hitler wouldn’t affect them either. Especially with Ernst Rhom on the payroll. He was the first to be murdered.

[quote]Do u use Grindr? Gay sex is legal now. That may not always be the case. It could also be retroactively illegal as well.

I've done my part. I've voted for the Vice President, I've donated, I've knocked on doors, and I plan to drive people to polls on election day. I'm working to get her elected, but if she loses then that's it for me. I'm tried of people waking up, when it's much too late. And as for gay sex, gay sex always finds its way.

The problem is there are GOP who just vote GOP. They hate Trump but die hard republicans will vote republican no matter what.

[quote]If he wins, then that's it for me. No more marching. No more volunteering. No more donating.

Do you have any hobbies? Do you like to travel? There’s a lot more to life than partisan politics. I think you’ll be much happier once you get away from it.

[quote] If you went up to a random German on the street and said, “In 10 years do you think the German people will send millions of Jews on trains to east Poland and gas them and nobody will stop it?” They would say you were crazy! It happens

Yes, we’ve seen how it starts, looking at the pro-Palestinian demonstrations and their calls for the extermination of Israeli Jews, but it definitely looks like the tide is turning against those modern day Nazis. That’s a positive thing, suggesting society is willing to check their evil beliefs before they get completely out of control.

[quote] Read someone recently (I think it was Heather Richardson Cox referencing the pollster she most trusted?) who said... ignore the polls, look at which each campaign is doing... that's the best measure of the state of the race.

What next? “Ignore the scientific polling. Read the entrails of sheep instead!”

He audibly farted during his speech in Detroit and then insulted Detroit. He is losing it.

Detroit has evidently experienced quite a bit of gentrification. It’s not the scary place it once was. But Dump insulted the hell out of them today. He’s a fucking moron and he’s toast.

On point R243. There is so much ignorance and apathy out there. It is enraging and exhausting.

If only, R258.

Rurral Americans are bigoted ARROGANT ignorant and evil and the more that die younger the better off we all will be.

Polls don’t matter GOTV does. I desperately want Harris/Walz to win and I believe that they can.

What is incredibly depressing to me is that 47% of the country supports an insane narcissist, pathological liar, rapist, felon.

Disinformation and misinformation have ruined America. Steve Bannon introduced ‘flooding the zone with shit’ and now we are all drowning in it.

It would serve the billionaiers right if Trump won and then invited them to a banquet where he murdered them all. He's quite capable of it.

R226 if you had asked the random, German if they loved or where happy with their govt at that time wyou would have had a significant popular response,

Hitler was not unpopular or lost popularity be cause his was a very right wing govt that did harsh things to undesirables nor because of ovens it was all about the invasion of Russia and losing the war.

And don’t rule a US with some harsh right wing govt in the US with harsh approaches most of the US would be quite popular with many in the US.

R263 What’s to stop him? The Supreme Ciurt has been stacked to allow Dump to do whatever he wishes. I think there is a laundry list of people who are far more afraid than we are. If he gets reelected, let the chips fall where they may. I’m in my fifties. My best years are behind me anyway. His own racist supporters will suffer the most, and I really don’t give a shit anymore.

R264 you might want to edit and repost that.

R261 puts their finger on the issue of civility among Americans .civility among correct thinking Americans is best restored if all those who don’t agree with just die,

Or in the words of the DL those haters are the problem they all must be killed,

Restore democracy kill those you don’t agree with. If we can’t beat them in November why not?

Try to remember that COVID took out a vast swath of The Deplorables, OP.

Trump just doesn’t have the numbers as he once did in 2016.

On the other hand, it’s still quite depressing how many irredeemably stupid people there are left.

Vote and control what you can, as the wise elders above have advised.

[quote]v

r100 No. Black men, specifically straight and even bi Black men, have fallen prey to the brain rot that is the Black red pill manosphere where they are more concerned with "masculinity" and dogging out Black women than racial issues. For further examples, see any of the shit that Dr. Clownmore Johnson spouts or the dude in the linked video below.

If you look in the comments section of Black social media circles (see: The Shade Room), you will see that a lot, if not most, of the Black males are not feeling her. It's a mess. Our community is messy as hell, right now.

R265 trumps own supporters will love him if trump wins. He will give them exactly what they want, On DL if trump wins there will be reports of suicides, the talk of suicides, the threat of suicides , there will be one thread after another after another after… . And if trump wins the other side will be dancing with joy

^ Whelp! That's not clickable.

And my crazy ass still didn't post it right. I'm sleepy.

[quote]R215 is partly why I get annoyed by the extreme far left. I’m a gay white man who is in a long term relationship with a wonderful Asian man. I have no problem with non-white people getting ahead and finally getting opportunities, and I think that’s a good thing. What I do have a problem with is people like you assuming that because I’m white I must be some bigoted asshole who wants to hold everyone else back. This is an extremely reductive point of view, and for much of the white population, extremely inaccurate.

Okay, R220. First, you don't know my political leanings other than I'm voting Democratic this year. I'm not extreme far left just because you misinterpreted or disagreed with something I mentioned. Second, go back and reread R215 word for word. Where the hell did I mention race or ever say that most White people are bigoted? That's something I don't do here. If you assumed that, you are wrong.

We are on a political thread that is discussing why so many Americans are supporting a man whose stating that if he's elected, fundamental rights and freedoms will be curtailed so he can carry out his program of retribution against other politicians and minority groups he or his allies find fault with, including gay men. And yes, part of the reason why this country is on the precipice of reelecting Donald Trump again is due to a sizable segment of the electorate who see a country evolving into a more fair and open society as a threat to them, so they're backing the person promising to stop or reverse the progress we've experienced. They are found among every racial and socioeconomic group you can think of.

In October 2024, it is the extreme right that pose more of a threat to this country than the extreme left. When the extreme left rejects a legitimate election outcome and then attempts to disrupt the process through violence, then we can start calling them equal threats.

Good day.

Trump is a lying, cheating, defrauding, colluding, raping, bullying, thieving, treasoning elderly felon. That half the country knows this and is still supporting him means they have an agenda. Is it Project 2025? The abolition of same sex marriage? Or any of their pet issues like abortion, guns, competition with immigrants, racism, coal jobs, taxes... All those Rush Limbaugh show buzz words.

I forgot to sign my post as R215, replying at R273.

I think the agenda is hatred of the elites. By that I mean hatred of college educated, liberal, progressive types that control the culture. or at least used to. MAGA types swoon every time Trump sticks it to them. So something like being a felon has no affect on his support and just binds his fans tighter to him.

Lo-lites of his rambling, incoherent, disordered thinking.

One thing is for sure, the MAGA party is going to lose their shit on Election Night when Trump loses. I’m thinking he’ll go out pretty quickly, losing PA or NC - his path to the WH will be blocked pretty quickly and then all the legal challenges and lies will ensue. MAGA will never believe Harris won but the majority of the country is ready to move on from this bullshit and leave these idiots to lick their own arseholes.

They’re only a harm to themselves. But MAGA is going to lose it. Black lady in the WH!!

R125 Oh, the Democrats are popular. That's why neither Dump nor any other Republican has won the popular vote in decades which means the majority doesn't want a Republican running their country.

Too bad we don't elect presidents based on popularity.

R278 And at that moment, we can finally exhale knowing that more Americans preferred reality over delusion. MAGA world will never admit defeat and they'll be pissed that their chance to play patriot vigilantes rounding up and deporting illegals has slipped away, but we expected that reaction in advance.

R279 approx 1/3 of the voters +/- voted for trump approx almost the same voted for Biden a tiny more for Biden approx 1/3 did not give a fuck and voted for one.

The Dems have had a consistent but not overwhelming lead in the popular vote for a few years now. Unfortunately it’s not the popular vote that decides who will be potus. The Dems have a slight but consistent national lead based on one thing nationally——women and abortion.

If they invent a spray that eliminates the need for abortions the Dems might never win another national election in your life time.

It’s not the safety net, taxes, national security, gay rights, nor education that drives dem wins it’s the fraus that we make so much fun of at DL and their abortions.

That is what saves us from a lifetime of right wing gop presidents. And this election we have trump. And trump should be an easy man to beat.

[quote]If they invent a spray that eliminates the need for abortions, the Dems might never win another national election in your lifetime.

Once Evangelical white supremacists are pounded into a permanent minority, what is left of the Republican Party will never win another election in your lifetime.

Adding to the resentment of the college elites is remote working, an option the working class doesn’t get to enjoy.

As old as I am the Dems may never win a national election in my lifetime. R282

No matter how people want to make the US into a liberal progressive country it’s not. Approx one half the country opposes you and I and think we are the enemy that needs to be eliminated.

And the one thing we have to counter them during a national election are the female voters and abortion.

You are not going to win a national election based on gun control, more money for education, better or more expansive health care, or gay rights.

Women and abortion and Donald Trump are our hopes for a Dem win.

And now a battle between trump and the Dems for the black male vote. ( it’s on msnbc right now so it has to be a real thing )

Trump and the GOP as crazy as they are as seen as the masc take no shit top

The liberal Dems , worth so much in terms of good policies , are seen as the more sensitive more feminine bottoms.

In life ,masc tops vs sensitive bottoms, I know how so many on DL would vote

This thread is a platform for one troll. Every anti-Harris post has come from them. There are some good thoughtful posts here but I am not feeding this person (who likely used a sock puppet to create it)

Pray.

What would help Harris win is if her supporters toned down the rhetoric against Trump supporters. Not against Trump, that’s OK.

It’s just common sense. If someone is on the fence, calling them a Nazi degenerate racist doesn’t win them over. Calling Trump a Nazi degenerate racist probably doesn’t hurt and I wouldn’t fault anyone for it, although he’s clearly not literally a Nazi so I would avoid that. Acknowledging that people have different priorities, but explaining why you think yours should matter more in a respectful way (don’t say “mine should matter more”) would help.

Very few people are in favor of unfettered mass immigration. Can you put your urge to feel righteous and belittle someone aside long enough to make a cogent point about the need for a democratic majority to enact reasonable immigration legislation? No? Well, then you are a Trump supporter. Can you respect that some people really do have a sincere moral objection to abortion even as your point out the huge negative consequences if it became more widely unavailable? But maybe focus less on the outrage over women’s bodies because the person you are speaking to might really value the fetus’s body? It’s OK to be snide. If the local republican prolife candidate has a daughter who has been in rehab 4 times it’s OK comment about how the candidate’s childless daughter must be very responsible with birth control (there are virtually no woman with out of control substance abuse problems who haven’t had abortions or kids). But don’t disrespect the concept that abortion is a negative thing. Don’t say, “if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament!” Say, “Geez, I hope my Romeo nephew reigns it in if abortion become illegal because he will end up paying child support to unsavory women” to someone with teenage boys.

if Biden does something that reinforces the perception that he is infirm between now and the election, Harris will lose. He should get sick today and stay sick until after the election. Something serious enough to elicit sympathy but not too closely associated with age or dementia.

Her big vulnerability is the that her party allowed him to remain in office after the debate. I don’t know if that was the right choice or not, but that’s her vulnerability. Trump’s campaign hasn’t made too much of an effort to capitalize on this yet. I don’t know if it’s because they are waiting or incompetent. I suspect they waited so that democrats didn’t have the opportunity to course correct.

If Harris loses, it’s because too many people weren’t sure who has been running the country for the last several months or years and they don’t trust the reassurances of people who constantly call them deplorable Nazi degenerate racists.

If you really think around 50% of the country is evil (not misinformed or naive), just don’t talk or type between now and the election. Put electrical over your mouth and wear mittens. Because you are working for Trump.

[quote]And at that moment, we can finally exhale knowing that more Americans preferred reality over delusion.

Let's hope so.

^^Excerpted from an Atlantic article titled "I"m Running Out of Ways to Explain How Bad This Is":

^ yeah, if you support Trump, it’s because you are disassociated from reality. Add that to the list of things not to say.

I see dozens of things like this for every reasoned comment that directly counters a misconception or falsehood with facts. The truth is getting crowded out by outrage.

[quote] Link, please, as to Pennsylvania. The most recent polls, even yesterday's otherwise disappointing Quinnipiac poll had Harris up 3 in Pennsylvania.

Emerson's latest poll has Trump up 1 over Harris in Pennsylvania (within the margin of error, of course, and only one poll). Emerson also has Harris and Trump tied in Wisconsin and Michigan. Harris's leads in the "blue wall" battleground states seem to be evaporating.

That Atlantic piece should be required reading. Thanks for the link R290

Fuck polls and do something- literally dozens of phone and text banking opportunities available. We can 100% win this. Liberals get so gloomy and fatalistic. The Republicans never do this.

BTW - there is a concerted effort by Polymarket betting and others (right wing funded polls) to have dems feel the situation is hopeless to depress the vote. DO NOT PLAY INTO THEIR GAMES.

This race is close and we will win.

538 shows Harris/Walz having a slight lead in the swing states. We just need to push push push. Help her win if you want her to win!

[quote]What would help Harris win is if her supporters toned down the rhetoric against Trump supporters.

Harris supporters are partisans, as much as Trump supporters. Neither is going to move the other, no matter what they say. Harris and her surrogates are attacking Trump personally, and Trump and his are attacking her. That's usual. That's a draw.

But in that vein, I think it was a mistake last night for Obama to lecture black men about not voting for Harris. What do you really think is the likelier reaction: "Man, thank God Obama made me think about that" or "fuck you, millionaire"? Whether it's true or not doesn't matter. Politics - campaigns - are not rational.

It's tight. She hasn't broken through to the extent we're breathing easy. In fairness, I am not sure who could have because this has turned out to be a referendum on what kind of people the American people are. Is this enough or do they want more? Are they cynical or disaffected or greedy enough to settle for Trump or do they still have just enough optimism and belief to think the country can [italic]and should[/italic] work for more? She can't break through now, I don't think. This is a fight for a few votes to get just enough to win. But that's all it is now, pure determination to the last minute. But I've got no idea what the message is an a stalled, tied race.

538 has Harris winning 55 out of 100 simulations. Trump is only at 45.

[quote] One thing is for sure, the MAGA party is going to lose their shit on Election Night when Trump loses.

It will be dramatic with much wailing and rending of clothes from whichever of the two sides loses, but I doubt that the results will be known on election night.

Said it before-I look forward to reading Dumps obit…

538 also has Harris winning the electoral college 278 to 260.

Trump supporters are racist morons who believe in insane conspiracy theories and love Putin as much as their 'dear leader.

Fuck their feelings. Democrats need to get in the fucking trenches.

[quote]Democrats need to get in the fucking trenches.

And do what? Seriously? What does get in the trenches even mean? Be specific because raging and ranting just makes you sound like a racist moron Trump supporter. What do Democrats do in the trenches to win this fucking thing?

Trench warfare is sitting around in a ditch and waiting for something to happen. Often in the rain. Likely waiting for the aggressors to attack you. No one in their right mind advocates going to the trenches unless you are outgunned and being outfought. .

The mattresses yes. But that is a different movie.

R301 spends his day asking maga voters about race in the US, their love for Putin, their feelings about Trump, then they discuss conspiracy theories.

I don’t trust 538 this cycle. Earlier in the year, it shelved its model, never admitting it was flawed. So I just can’t get on board now.

He has never changed a tire or a diaper-just his own.

Where is a reputable poll that says Trump will win? Lots of bed wetting on this thread.

[quote] Where is a reputable poll that says Trump will win? Lots of bed wetting on this thread.

Collectively, the polls show that the race is too close to call, but people who are too emotionally attached to the election are constantly looking for anything that will augur the outcome they want.

This should help?

Not that means anything to anybody, really, but my sister has managed to convince my brain-addled 84-year-old mother to vote for Kamala with her mail-in ballot.

My mother has been a Republican all her life, and [italic]loved[/italic] Bill O'Reilly and Donald Trump. She watched Fox News for many years. I could never imagine her wanting to vote for [bold]any[/bold] Democrat, much less a black female Democrat.

If I were the one visiting her in "the home," I'd have just filled in the damned ballot for Kamala and not told my mother a thing. But my sister, who's scrupulously honest (when it suits her), actually managed to persuade my mother to go ahead and vote for Kamala. My mom literally said, "I could vote for her!"

So even an 84-year-old brain-addled woman in assisted living has seen the light, OP. [italic]And[/italic] they live in PA.

Stop your worrying.

R310, that’s scary, that we have a system that allows votes to be harvested from people who don’t know what they are doing.

MAGA loves the smell of Trump's farts.

[quote] Lots of bed wetting on this thread.

The Trump campaign has released a private poll showing he's ahead in six of the seven battleground states. The Harris campaign surely would do likewise if it had its own encouraging private polling. All it can do, instead, is to trot out David Plouffe on Nicolle Wallace's show to try & calm the waters.

And you believe this private polling coming out of the Trump camp? Okay, Ramona. Whatever you say.

Has anyone on the Harris campaign challenged its veracity, R314? The silence is deafening.

Vibes don't vote.

People do.

Do what you can to help get out the vote before November.

R313... I dunno about that. A calculation might have been made to let that sit... the drive the Democratic vote to the polls. They may have decided a little fear and urgency are a good thing for the Harris campaign.

And somewhat to R314's point, which I think in its scorn oversimplifies things, everybody knows you can send a pollster out to get you what you need. I'm sure the polling exists, I'm just not sure it reflects reality.

Still it feels too close for comfort. It always was. Now it feels it. I really don't think there was necessarily a better obvious candidate than her (I think the platform could have been better and the overall messaging could have been sharper and less repetitive.) But now it's down to getting out the vote and every vote counting more than ever.

I hope we see all Democrats aiming focus at the swing states, suburbs, women and disaffected Republicans: can you trust the country to Donald Trump's Republican party? Do you trust they understand the economy? Do you trust that billionaires won't come first on their priority list? Do you trust them with your health insurance? Do you trust them on abortion? Do you trust them on the Court? Do you trust what they will do will help your future or harm it? Maybe less answering the question on their behalf and more planting of the seed of doubt. Because I think we can count on there being a bunch of people in the middle, leaning toward Trump because he's a Republican, who are holding their noses but know in their hearts you can't trust this guy. They just need to get themselves there, not be told.

We haven't heard nearly enough about Project 2025. They should have made this election a referendum on Project 2025. There should have been a new hit everyday on social. There should have been a big reveal at every major speech and every major rally. Democrats need to plant and capture the doubt.

I also think Harris needs to promise to govern from the center. I think the belief she's too left is part of the problem. She needs a major speech - billed as the center speech - where she promises she's not going overboard.

With the increasing likelihood of a Republican Senate, R318, she can’t help but govern from the center.

Then she may as well embrace it now and reassure. This will be won in increments now. She plainly - through no fault of her own - can't command a distance between her and Trump that guarantees her win.

[quote] 538 has Harris winning 55 out of 100 simulations. Trump is only at 45.

ONLY at 45? That's not exactly reassuring. It means Harris's odds are only slightly better than a coin flip.

[quote] 538 also has Harris winning the electoral college 278 to 260.

That's a one-state difference. Or to put it another way, it all probably comes down to Pennsylvania.

This is it...

Get out and vote and get other people out to vote. Volunteer to work phone banks at democrats.org

I think this will be a lower turn out election compared to 2020.

In the past, R324, a lower turnout would’ve inured to the benefit of Republicans. With the Great Realignment, the impact is much less clear.

Okay, I thought that before Biden dropped out, there were loads of polls saying that any generic Democrat would mop the floor with Trump. Well, what in the actual fuck happened to that?

No, no, no --the "lower turnout" this year is going to benefit Democrats. Trust me.

Many Deplorables who can barely drag their asses to the polls when they're fired up by Trump have turned ambivalent. Only the die-hard Trumpers of all ages will vote this time. But as others here have said, the ambivalents won't say they're sitting it out. I'm not even sure that [bold]they[/bold] know they're sitting it out -- yet. But when the time comes, they're going to do exactly what the young folks did back in the day -- sit on the recliner, smoke pot (Deplorables [italic]love[/italic] pot!), and watch TV.

This year, young people will turn out in [bold]droves[/bold] for a change, mainly due to abortion and Kamala. They may even set a record for 18-24 y.o. turnout. Keep your fingers crossed.

That's my prediction and I'm stickin' to it!

[quote] Okay, I thought that before Biden dropped out, there were loads of polls saying that any generic Democrat would mop the floor with Trump.

I never subscribed to that belief. Or that a Nikki Haley would mop the floor with any Democrat.

The young are not going to turn out in droves. It would be nice if they showed up at least a little more than normal. At least as much as normal.

There are people who are conservative and do not like the Dems but will find it hard to vote for Donald Trump. I do believe that there are a number who want to vote gop but wont..

I also think the weather has thrown things into a bit of chaos in a number of states. If so that means problems and opportunities. I thrust the Dems get out the vote effort much more than I would trust the gop effort.

All we can do at this point is vote and hope likeminded folks do the same. I’m pretty sure females will allow Kamala to prevail.

One things for sure, democrats need to completely drop the border issue, and just be tough on it. It doesn’t win us any votes. Mexican-Americans grow up in conservative Christian households. We don’t win votes by being soft on the border because the GOP easily can bamboozle them with the conservative values carrot. On individual issues, democrats are the populists but every fucking time we have to fight tooth and nail because they can’t brand a message WHILE in office.

Harris/Walz 24

If the so-called bed wetting helps to avoid the complacency that may have lost the election for Hillary, it’s all for the good.

R331 Can you reassure me that Trump’s internals are false. 😔

Alas, I cannot, R332.

I’m afraid of me

I’m mentally preparing myself this time around. I want to be in a state of mind on Election Day where I am able to shake it off if she loses, but go full tilt ecstatic if she wins.

I am not doing what I did in 2016, which nearly sent me into a tailspin.

R330, I agree with you about immigration. Just appropriate what the Repugs are doing and saying.

People like law and order, not bending backwards for illegals.

I believe in Crystal Light

I believe in Krystle Carrington.

Trump lies about everything including polls

I believe in me even though I've never been to me.

I wish I could get away from me and go somewhere else for a change.

The betting organizations keep raising Trump's chances.

The RCP betting odds average had Kamala in a big lead for the last couple of months. Now it's Trump 53.9% vs Kamala 44.7%

And the latest Emerson College poll (rated in the top 10 among pollsters) now shows Trump with a slight lead in PA.

But I listened to Trumps rally today, he's more unhinged than ever. He's sure not trying to clean up his act for the home stretch.

Volunteer opportunities abound - turn that anxiety into action.

BTW - since September 30th the majority of polls taken have been by right leaning orgs. You also have Peter Thiel's poly market making a splash and 'flooding the zone with shit'.

Will vote Kamala but expect Trump to win-if he doesn’t great but I’m preparing for Martial Law.

You mean Marcia Law.

You might be on to something R288

The worst part is, basket of deplorables wasn't even a good line.

She died for nothing.

What do you talk-Basket of Deplorable's is a perfect term/name for those Trumper's

[quote] But I listened to Trumps rally today, he's more unhinged than ever. He's sure not trying to clean up his act for the home stretch.

Yes, his rallies are a clusterfuck, and Trump's brain has turned to mush, but it's his advertising where the war is being waged. The Trump campaign is bombarding the swing states with non-stop negative ads (Kamala lets illegal immigrants kill children, Kamala wants to confiscate your guns, Kamala wants to give free sex-change operations to prisoners, Kamala wants to ban fracking, Kamala is going to tank the economy), and I think it's working with some voters. Kamala needs to go on the offense, and she needs some sharper ads.

I don't understand why Kamala doesn't hire the people who do the Lincoln Projects. They are hilarious but also very hard hitting.

Trump fans love his unhinged brain mush-more the merrier.

r332, remember that Trump gets what he pays for.

He WANTS to be lied to.

It is why Fox calling AZ for Biden did not go well with him.

Nov. 6th

True, R352, but the Harris campaign hasn’t been shy on calling out their lies. But not in this instance. And they haven’t released their own internals.

They don't actually live in an alternate reality. They are just bad people. This is what you're not getting. The know they are evil traitors, care nothing for America or democracy or anything but hate. America has become a nation of self-conscious and enthusiastic Satan worship. That it pretends to be Christian is just another lie. There is a thirst for violence in these people this land has never known (but is well familiar to people in Latin America, which has always had this culture).

The border you say? We liberals or moderates can get tough on the border? Yes pick a popular one to say we also agree.

The gop gets support because they have a lot of positions that are popular to the American public.

Soft sensitive delicate and triggered is not the traditional american way .

Nonsenes R356. Those are not their actual positions. That's just so much talk. Trump never closed the border, got tough with China, lifted a finger to clean up Wall Street or crime generally. Reublicans are just demgogues. Their only agenda is to steal whatever Americans still have.

So it’s nothing to do with any issues like border security, crime, disease, taxes, national security, the border, or the Middle East, or Ukraine it’s totally about nearly one half the country only wanting to steal “whatever Americans still have” ?

Brilliant this is what you get at DL the kind of political analysis you don’t get at Fox or CNN.

Our precious bodily fluids is what they are trying to steal from me.

R275

Uh, you can vote and then get on with your life, OP. Turning politics into entertainment is what got Trump elected in the first place. We need to go back to not caring about politics, which I know is extremely hard to do now with a corrupt Supreme Court hellbent on destroying the country. Hollywood and NYC gave us Trump. Never forget. Trump should have been in a jail cell decades ago.

R347 BULLSHIT. That's THE definitive statement. Senators accusing Democrats of controlling the weather. Immigrant gangs that are going to steal homes and murder your children. No concern that your constituents might not receive disaster relief because they’re dumb enough to believe you. It’s almost comical the state this country is in.

If you're gonna die on a hill, that's a pretty good one.

The New York Times suddenly seems to be covering Trump like they expect him to win.

“comical state this country is in”

If people don’t serve to actual try and make things better, the people who refuse to serve the country in any fucking way, not serving in the police to make the police better, not serving in the military to make our military better, not being a schoolteacher trying to educate our young, not being a fire fighter, nor running for political office themselves jus fucking nothing

not doing a single fucking thing to make this country better except paying as little taxes as possible and constantly 24/7 complaining about the state of things that we ourselves would never do. Bitch bitch bitch and do fucking nothing else of worth.

This is not a left or right issue, this is the sad sack what have you done to make my life better, country we now have.

Those who have done nothing deserve nothing

[quote]The New York Times suddenly seems to be covering Trump like they expect him to win.

Wishful thinking?

Sure, R363, after they endorsed Harris in a scathing anti-Trump screed.

Stop it OP/Alexei

I think Trump has moved on to plan b. Say he won and try to steal the election.

Remeber 2 things he said recently.

1) I had big rallies in CA, big crowds. Therefore, I can't have lost CA. If Jesus counted the votes i would have won CA. 2) I had big crowds. Biden could not fill 8 circles. Therefore, I won.

His plan now is to turn out big crowds in CA and NY and Chicago and say 'I could not have lost. If 200,000 people came to MSG (truth won't get in his way) then I am more popular and there is no way she beat me.

He is running up the polls to keep them close so he can claim his theory has legs. We were neck and neck, I had a million people come out. I won (even though Detroit, Philly and Madison votes have not been counted)

The polls were so far off in 22. Big Gretch was supposedly down by one, tied or up by one. They were getting her obit ready. She won by 10.

There was a time when a presidential candidate calling his opponent “retarded” would have been major news and disqualifying.

[quote]He is running up the polls to keep them close so he can claim his theory has legs.

That’s as asinine as saying Democrats are creating hurricanes.

Sure because this can totally be trusted. No agenda here at all by releasing this on the same day that Trump was in his tower admonishing Jews, his billionaire supporters and calling Kamala a retard.

[quote] a memo his campaign released this week asserted that he was leading in all of the battleground states

I just thought of something. In 2016, Trump ran against a woman and won (well, the electoral college vote, at least). In 2020, he ran against a man and lost.

If this year, he runs against a woman [italic]again[/italic] and wins, what does that say about our country?

If Harris loses, it is about immigration, inflation, and the blind faith that Trump can deliver a stronger economy. Toxic masculinity and its fans drive these, but Harris is not hated for her gender in the way Clinton was.

No, the American public is just plain stupid.

R360, I want to relate an exchange I had at work. I was talking to a colleague and we both momentarily glanced at a TV at the same time. The head of FEMA was complaining about misinformation and how awful it was that people were engaging in misinformation and that was so bad and all those people were awful.

But she didn’t lay out what misinformation had been disseminated, by who, or how it was delivered. Neither of us had an opinion about FEMA’s response to Helene prior to seeing this but she came off BAD. It made us suspect that there could be some truth in these unspecified allegations because she didn’t bother to tell us what were. Had she given specific examples of people claiming that democrats are controlling the weather she would have created the opposite impression (it’s possible she did this prior to our attention being captured, but I didn’t get that feeling). But she didn’t. She just painted the “other side” as the enemy.

People who follow things closely may have a different perspective, but I suspect a lot of people who think they do know less than they realize. Most Americans are just hearing noise at this point. So they stick with the side they originally felt more affinity with. Because nobody is giving them the opportunity to re-evaluate things.

People on both sides are just piling on the other side for their core biases, not addressing issues or acknowledging areas where people have legitimate concerns and providing justifications for not addressing or prioritizing them. Nobody on either side ever gets told you can’t have everything, that there are trade offs. You aren’t an evil racist if you want more controls on immigration, especially unskilled immigrants not going through the standard green card process. But if that’s what you want, you should understand that some things, especially food and construction, are going to cost more. You aren’t an evil flunky of a new world order if you are a proponent of liberal immigration policies and generous aid to immigrants. But if that’s what you want, you should understand that it’s to the detriment of lower income Americans who will see downward pressure on wages, increased competition for housing, and more crowding in their schools.

It’s not natural for people to be on one of two sides with no overlap, and they aren’t. But our media and politicians have created that false impression. It’s almost like people are losing the ability to communicate what they actually think and want.

I hope Harris wins because she’s not a train wreck, but it’s hard to be enthusiastic. Trump was a strange wildcard, but I was actually hopeful that he’d shake things up enough that once he was gone the country could start over with a clean slate and decent candidates. I was way too optimistic.

I think eventually some very bad external thing will be the tipping point and then we will rebuild. But I don’t have a lot of optimism in the near to medium term.

R373, you tap into something I believe about the Democrats and progressives in particular.

First let me premise, the majority of progressive ideas are good ideas. They will make getting by easier.

But the left and progressives are the worst communicators in the political space. The reality is they are fighting against the right, which has the easier job of just making everybody skeptical and cynical. But so often the left - just for descriptive purposes - just assume or take for granted that they are so right they don't have to persuade anybody. They think it's obvious. It may be. But when you don't command a majority, you need to persuade some of them. But so often they stop at the moral imperative and sound like they're talking at you (and down to you) rather than to you. So would you rather be right or would you rather govern?

I spent twenty-five years in communications. I came to understand this: 99% of people talking aren't gifted communicators, so you can't just tell people what's important, you also have to tell them why it's important, in practical terms. Stuff the morality. Connect it. Show the outcome. As a benefit. Make it plain.

[Quote] No, the American public is just plain stupid.

That’s not it. The democrats have a huge handicap they have to overcome every single election. There’s a huge propaganda apparatus set up in this country to drive conservative-leaning middle American whites to run to thr polls and vote against democrats.

Is there a similar network doing that for democrats? No.

[quote] If this year, he runs against a woman again and wins, what does that say about our country?

Well it does say that a woman will be hard-pressed to get the Democratic presidential for some time.

I've come to the belief that at least half of the American population wants to be led by authoritarian goons who appeal to their baser instincts and prejudices and who tell them what to do and think.

Personally I think the only thing that will break MAGA fever is actually going through a period of fascism, where MAGA idiots suffer just as much as the rest of us. Especially the gullible/low information blacks and Latinos who have started to gravitate towards Trump.

Of course, that period could last decades - but these idiots seem impervious to all other realms of common sense.

R377, meet r375. Rightwing Americans don’t vote for. They vote AGAINST.

Democrats have MSNBC.

As long as Harris is ahead in PA, she will win.

[Quote] Personally I think the only thing that will break MAGA fever is actually going through a period of fascism,

That will make things a million times worse. If Trump controlled the media, what would people be finding out about the world?

Germans living under fascism didn’t learn the error of their ways and overthrow the government. They got sucked deeper and deeper in.

[Quote] Democrats have MSNBC.

MSNBC is not a propaganda apparatus. They do not lie to the viewers to get them to vote against republicans. Fox does.

As they say, you all must be fun at parties.

How about all you Debbie Downers stay on this thread and leave the rest of us alone? Not a lot of you are discussing any real signs that Trump will win (the Times is covering Trump like he’s going to win the election?…WTF even?) but are just relishing in each others doom porn.

Stay here in this little Sadness Silo, let the rest of us vote, live our lives, and deal with what happens when and IF it happens. In the meantime, remember it’s just as easy to see signs that Kamala Harris is our next President.

“That will make things a million times worse. If Trump controlled the media, what would people be finding out about the world?

Germans living under fascism didn’t learn the error of their ways and overthrow the government. They got sucked deeper and deeper in.”

I agree with all of this. Notice I said it could last decades.

I mean - close to HALF the country are lapping up Trump’s special brand of absurdist diarrhea. Can’t get enough of it. You think a Harris win is going to disrupt that level of insane idolatry? I sure don’t.

To the "Trump talks about what Americans are concerned about" et. al.

We forget that after the 2016 election there was deep research in what motivated voters for a candidate who was so extremely dishonest and off the usual norms. The conclusions, data-driven, were clear: racism. From "the Mexicans are racist" to "shithole countries" to "they're bringing bad genes" to "they're eating dogs" to "she used to be Indian and then she turned black"... etc., the foundation of his attraction hasn't been economic issues or even abortion (though the latter has engaged the white, evangelical and Catholic extremists who have emerged in the last 50 years), it's racism. The same thing that inflames the extreme right wing that inflames Netherland (their new PM), Italy and Meloni, Hungary and Orban, UK and Brexit, France and LePen, Austria and FPM, Germany and AfD and on and on. It's an old story and explains no matter how deranged, confused, dishonest, and senile Trump may present he will never lose about 45% of voters who understand the message: He is against "THEM" and for "US"... we dissemble ourselves and play games with this, the "them" is the elite, the coastal woke, etc. etc. It's just simple racism.

And now he will lose to a black woman. A consequential election, ya think?

When my European friends come over and watch MSNBC, they think it is centre-right. A mainstream evening news. They don't see anything left wing about the contents, the hosts, the news etc

R385 has it right. My European friends predicted that Trump would run on immigration only and they predicted that he would inflame race riots on purpose. The white working class beating anyone brown, breaking windows of migrant home etc That has not happened (yet) as it did in Europe but it will. If he loses he and Musk will stoke those tensions to violence to give Kamala a mess to deal with on day 1.

R370 or do you mean what does that say about women?

An additional observation about the MSNBC is the left's FOX argument: it's not remotely like FOX. FOX has a large audience who is given non-stop filtered propaganda. It's viewers accept the worldview entirely. MSNBC is center-left commentary (or as R386 place it on a worldwide spectrum, center-right) and its viewers are constantly questioning and disappointed with how news and analysis is given there.

One of the symptoms of our current American disease is this lie so many of us blindly tell ourselves: "oh, both sides are the same." They are not.

What if trump does win?

It will be a long cold winter. The turn to the right could last decades. Voting will get harder and harder. The courts will be far right .Things will get worse and worse for the left. It’s going to be a miserable time.

It’s actually unclear if things will get worse and worse for the country as a whole. Let’s face it Hitler had a very high arrival rating from his public right up until Germany started to lose the war. And right up until that losing of the war germanys economy was a marvel.

But if things do get worse and worse for the country in time the left will rise in blood revolt and drive the buggets out.

All of us alive today will be long dead but in the end things will work out.

I am a bit surprised by the number of people who think it's just a matter of waiting out four years.

R389 R390

"I had counted on my Prime lasting a while longer" - the American Experiment

^ ?

And I can place the exact moment things turned south for the country and our Prime started to fade. The exact moment we as a country started on the road to ending the Grand Experiment.

Do you perhaps mean the Great Experiment, o learned one?

Because the Grand Experiment only Googles to something about evolution or a first album by the progressive rock supergroup The Neal Morse Band.

It's not for me to teach the basics, but perhaps you'd be better served by plain English. Baby steps.

R388 You are mostly right, but that doesn’t mean that MSNBC doesn’t do any brainwashing. Much of it consists of commentators giving their opinion that Trump is evil (ad nauseam). They are right of course, but as a communications major, I can tell you that opinions aren’t news. These people like Joe Barfborough that my mom loves to watch is just repeating the same shit, and my mother could be using that time to learn something new.

Yesterday my mother (an MSNBC addict) told me that Trump is calling Kamala stupid because she’s black. I explained to her that Trump says that about everyone who is running against him regardless of race (Hillary, Joe) but she didn’t want to hear it. To my main point: the spin that MSNBC puts on things is nowhere near as damaging as what Fox does, but that doesn’t mean they don’t put any spin on things.

R394 you have put your finger on the real issue facing the country and democracy the age old question Great vs Grand.

I am sure with more googling you will have more to add on this.

[quote] As long as Harris is ahead in PA, she will win.

And likely the other Rust Belt states. It's been some time since they didn't vote in tandem.

R397 I worry about the large Arab American vote in MI. I can foresee PA (and WI) going for Harris by a slim margin and her losing MI.

As for the Fox-MSNBC divide, I have 780,000,000 reasons why MSNBC is not Fox from the right. That being said, I wish MSNBC would feature more contrarian views.

Muslims for Trump is like chickens for KFC.

R399 Then go to CNN where they make an effort to be "fair and balanced" and so normalize, "sane wash", Trump and fascism with "contrarian views"....

We are in denial with what's happened in our country. Liz Cheney and Bernie Sanders are certainly "contrarian views" and are on the same side this election.

Is that even possible for a devout MSNBC viewer to admit that MSNBC is the Fox News of the Left? They would be like a unicorn, right?

R401, being in a bubble only gives us a sugar high.

R403 I'd encourage you research the many, many studies that determine the usual Fox viewer is woefully uninformed about the simple facts of issues. They are demonstrable less informed than citizens who don't watch the news at all.

I watch MSNBC... and other sources, (NYT, WP, Axios, The Hill, RCP, Drudge, CNN) and multiple online/podcasts (Democracy Now, Pod Save America, The Bulwark, The Daily, The Daily Show, Bill Maher, John Oliver). You can say I live in a bubble... but my high is not sugar, it's concern over our future.

Harris/Walz are running a kickers campaign and have absolutely reinvigorated the base. Harris is doing a CNN Town Hall will should be great for her and she is appealing to moderate voters. She can win this.

There are a lot of Trump supporters on this thread and that is obvious.

I will be volunteering for the campaign this weekend. What are *you* doing?

R404, I don't disagree with you that more of the MSNBC audience accesses morel news sources than does the typical Fox viewer, but it concerns me that too many MSNBC viewers believe there is no chance Trump could win. This part of the audience is clearly in a bubble.

R405 Don't need to continue to discuss this, but the places I see responses and comments from "MSNBC viewers" about the election outcome are full of "I can't believe it's this close" "it's a coin toss!" "we are underdogs and we need to do more" etc. etc.

E.g. here on DL... this very thread.

R400

Liberals for Muslims are like chickens for KFC.

Fixed that for ya.

Ok. Maybe I'm conflating DL with MSNBC. Here, there is still too much of the sentiment I describe.

[quote]. Trump was a strange wildcard, but I was actually hopeful that he’d shake things up

then you're a troll and a dumbass. he was involved with criminality in the 80s and the 90s. only a fool thought he'd "shake things up". some people are simply too immature to vote at all

Trump is not going to win

r399, you blithely leave out how difficult it will be internationally. typical of a dumb american voter. I'm voting for harris as she has a better handle on what is going on in the world around the US

I'm getting excited that the election will finally be over in less than a month, no matter who wins.

And what part of my post, R412, leads you to your conclusion? I'm a Harris voter in a swing state. I already voted for her & I've made multiple donations to both the Biden & Harris campaigns.

R413 :-)

What a dreamer. This election will still be going on in December. Maybe Jan. I am hoping not Feb. Feb would be a real'prolem

R410 I am a leftwing voter... only times I haven't voted for Dem was for Peace and Freedom or Green candidates.

I voted for Clinton in 2016, was livid about Stein voters, and appalled that Trump could garner any support... but I understood the attraction of someone who could challenge the status quo, challenge the hegemonic influence of corporations and lobbyists... stop leaking resources to questionable efforts to establish "international economies"....

In short, I gave excuses to Trump voters in 2016 (when it fact it was simple racism).

But no one should voter for Trump after the last eight years... after Jan 6.... he promised to drain the swamp, and instead he's monetized the swamp for his own advantages. He is happy to drown the republic in his maga-piss of a swamp.

Don't fall for the republicans claim that freedom of speech is under threat from the democrats when you see how Musk colluded with Trump campaign to keep information about JD Vance of twitter/ X. These guys always project when attacking and accusing others.

Will Jill Stein (voters) be a spoiler again

And I see they are still calling Trumps black male support at 21%. I actually understand how that might be true I just find it astounding.

The black males and how they will vote or not, the queers for Palastine, the electorial college, violence around voting, the upset citizens of Dearborn, the courts, the Supreme Court, gen z and if they have something better to do than vote,

There are a lot of moving parts in this election

If Harris loses ...

If Trump loses ...

They are flooding the polling zone with shit.

R384 the Germans, excluding the Jews, loved or liked Hitler. They loved the boom in their economy, their newly refound Pride in country aka nationalism, they loved the order and security that Hitler provided.

Most did quite well for the time helped along by a good economy.. Then WW2 the camps the bombings and it all went to shit. But until it went to shit Hitler was popular and no one was seriously thinking of over throwing him except for maybe the commies.

"Gaming" the polls - also setting up the war against facts if Trump loses.

"How can we have lost when we had a bigger lead in the polls than any in history!!"

"Trump may be a rapist, fraudster, traitor and 34 times felon but he is leading in the polls and is strong.

Trump may be a dangerous extremist, a bigot, misogynist and a racist but he is leading in the polls and is strong.

Trump may want to end the global economy which has made us prosperous, end the Western alliance which has kept us safe, end American democracy which has kept us free but he is leading in the polls and is strong.

Trump is leading in the polls and is strong is a way to make all his ugliness disappear. Which is why his campaign is working so hard to create a false impression that he's ahead. To Trump it is arguably the most important "issue" in the election."

Simon Rosenberg points to the NYT poll and doesn't mention the Emerson and the WSJ polls that have Trump +1 in Pennsylvania. That's what polling spin looks like.

r384, r423, and any pundits can't be taken seriously if they try to promote the idea that there is similarity between the U.S. and Weimar Germany. The rule of thumb still holds than when comparing something to Hitler, don't.

^^ This is the "yes we are frogs in a pan of water but you really can't tell it's getting hotter" admonition.

Ok ima be a broken record here. Scared Trump might win? Deploy your money to help prevent that:

R429 I (and many of us) are at the federal contribution limit for $$ to Harris and re-directing $ to PACs. I have given far more than I can afford. We absolutely can't lose this election.

Trump's people are doing what they do, flooding the zone with weapon's-grade horseshit. The polling equivalent of a cluster of old white boomers wearing "BLACKS FOR TRUMP" tshirts.

Kamala's gonna win, and it's not gonna be close. (I'm an optimist that way.)

The Trumpista reaction will not be pretty, and it's an open question how ugly/violent that gets.

It's a massive campaign of lies and defamation against Harris/Waltz. Apart from the hurricane calumnies against FEMA and Biden (let's bring him back in), they also attack Tim Waltz. The latest is a social media campaign called "Touchdown Timmy," which accuses him, with no substantiation, of molesting the kids he coached. Started by renowned liar Laura Loomer.

For Harris, they are returning to illegitimacy issues: she supposedly gave blow jobs to become the Attorney General of Cali. She is object of pointed questions about "how were you selected after Biden," implying that she got rid of Joe in a palace coup.

Negative campaigns against the ticket - especially on social media- are chipping away at her lead.

R423, And his own Generals.

[quote]Negative campaigns against the ticket - especially on social media- are chipping away at her lead.

So you're reporting on damage against her poll numbers based on internet rumors...while spreading internet rumors.

Got it.

r434 - No, I am seeing a drop in poll numbers outside social media. See The Guardian today. I gave two examples of the vicious lies the Trump campaign is spreading to show how foul and dangerous they are.

We need a liberal dictator. Someone above the law that can do good things. This democracy and voting means that many people will willingly vote to live under a more right wing conservative anti liberal govt.

And a number of those that claim they feel this way in 2024 appear to be black males. A number meaning 20%.

Trump’s spin that he is winning every state is just bullshit. I also don’t think it will be close and Kamala will win. Trump will bitch and moan - and file the usual lawsuits - but that will go nowhere. He’s toast.

[quote]The latest is a social media campaign called "Touchdown Timmy,"

I saw that trending on X, but I didn't click on it to see what it was about. I figured it was about Walz.

[quote]I saw that trending on X,

Also, I see right now that Walz is being skewered by being compared to Elmer Fudd on X. I take it that there's video of him hunting that people are mocking.

[quote] Negative campaigns against the ticket - especially on social media- are chipping away at her lead.

Harris and Walz need to make some news and generate some buzz on social media. They were social media darlings two months ago when their campaign was rolled out. There were memes about coconut trees and about Trump and Vance being "weird" and about Vance's disdain for childless cat ladies and his love of couches. It felt like Harris was winning the Internet in a big way. But now, it feels like the online buzz has fizzled or even shifted in Trump's favor. Harris has been doing interviews, but she hasn't said anything particularly new or memorable. (How many times can she tell us that she wants to create an "opportunity economy"?) Harris and Walz need to regain control of the media narrative.

[quote]Harris and Walz need to make some news and generate some buzz on social media.

Walz has this weekend, but it's not good.

[quote]Harris has been doing interviews, but she hasn't said anything particularly new or memorable.

She's in the shop being renovated. "Kamala Harris Getting Help to ‘Clean Up’ Her ‘Style’ in Interviews After Failure to Explain How She Differs From Biden: Report"

[quote]No, I am seeing a drop in poll numbers outside social media. See The Guardian today.

Which is reporting on polling averages provided by Nate Silver's 538.com.

Nate Silver and 538 are funded by techbro nazi Peter Thiel.

Perhaps they should be looking into why the press passes on numbers massaged by massive amounts of garbage RW polling data as if they're real.

A Trump win would only reinforce his conviction he won in ‘20, too.

Just Google "Expat communities" and move to one of them.

R442, Nate Silver is no longer connected with 538. In fact, he has said that he is not following 538 this cycle since they shelved their preexisting election model earlier this year with nary an acknowledgment.

[quote]Which is reporting on polling averages provided by Nate Silver's 538.com.

538 is ABC News. Not Nate Silver.

[quote]Simon Rosenberg points to the NYT poll and doesn't mention the Emerson and the WSJ polls that have Trump +1 in Pennsylvania. That's what polling spin looks like.

Says the person spinning polling data in half the posts on this thread.

We're gonna be besieged with bullshit like this for the next month. Ignore it. These fucking morons are here to depress voter turnout.

[quote]Simon Rosenberg points to the NYT poll and doesn't mention the Emerson and the WSJ polls that have Trump +1 in Pennsylvania. That's what polling spin looks like.

True.

And Emerson College polling is ranked in the top 10 of polling organizations.

R447, like any intellectually honest person, I cite & try to glean from polls both good & bad.

[quote]I'm a Harris voter in a swing state. I already voted for her & I've made multiple donations to both the Biden & Harris campaigns.

You guys can save this country from chaos, so thanks for voting.

R436,The term you're looking for is "benevolent dictator."

Yeah, no. YOU might need one in order to do the right thing, but most of us don't want any kind of dictator.

Dictatorships are the world's future. They'll be an illusion of democracy at best.

People do not respond to independent polls anymore. Don't believe ANY stories based on poll numbers. Marketing research is a numbers game and they don't know WHY people don 't respond to their polls so they can't tell you their sample is representative.

R452, so Boris, Ivan and Evgeny have given up?

Good

He has asked for "presidential level" security.

R454 You're STILL doing that "Boris" thing?

[quote]You're STILL doing that "Boris" thing?

Ah, Da!

Honestly this country’s pathological obsession with race doesn’t help.

The same thing you did during his first presidency

Sigh. A bunch of Black men are either going to sit this election out or vote for Trump. Mark my words.

I'm down with blaming BM. They need a good slap upside they heads.

r461 There are still many out there who act like they have some damn sense (vid below). But the manosphere, especially the Black manosphere, has done so much damage that it's now an obvious driver to the shifting politics of a huge chunk of Black men. Their hatred and bitterness toward Black women is that bad.

I follow quite a bit of the media that they're consuming just to understand what type of messaging is happening in our communities and it's bad. Most Black men just really hate us. I while I may not agree with every single thing Kamala says, I still want her to win if for no other reason than to make them seethe. I'm actually that petty.

R462 you claim black men are voting for trump because black women who they hate have driven them to do so ? And your main desire for Harris to win is so that those black men will seethe?

I think I see what the problem is.

R417 Don't forget about Zuckernerd

The irony of people even questioning that Kamala gave head to get ahead when they are supporting a dude who publicly acknowledges that he grabs women by they mafuckin pussy. IMAGINE BEING THAT HYPOCRITICAL. Magas live in a world where women are suppose to be a combination of Xenia Warrior Princess while maintaining the social mores, grace, and subservience of women like Mary from Gilligan’s Island.

Kamala is absolutely going to win this election and I’d bet my life on it. Americans are dumb ass rocks but they generally don’t like hypocrites. See the cult of Maga or grievance politics conservatives have allowed them to be completely blind to any sense of normalcy. They are a bunch of weirdos.

“a bunch of weirdos” R466 ?

A tough sell on DL where some claim they won’t vote at all Amd some will constantly bitch and complain and then say they have not voted in years.

and others go on and on and just recently about their refusing to have sex with anyone who uses a condom, and some talk about jacking off into their families food secretly and others talk about exposing themselves and jacking off in public hallways, and those who like their assholes musky when they lick, and of course the really weird

If I did not enjoy weird I would not be on DL

R466, you’d seriously “bet your life” on a Harris win?! To me, that’s on a par with the weirdness that is endemic to being a MAGAt.

[quote] I'm down with blaming BM.

Bowel movements?

[quote] Kamala is absolutely going to win this election and I’d bet my life on it.

Can I have your stuff?

r464 Indeed he's pretty vile too. The tech bros level of power is unhealthy for society and democracy. They are like feudal Lords. Dangerous.

[quote]A tough sell on DL where some claim they won’t vote at all Amd some will constantly bitch and complain and then say they have not voted in years.

Wanna link to a thread, R467? I'm on DL every day and I haven't read anything like this, let alone the items mentioned in the next paragraph...well, maybe a couple of those...

Perhaps [italic]you're[/italic] the weird one.

i just read it today, but it was a troll who's only other thread was "why didn't harris pick shapiro" - thus a troll

Polls are all showing that Trump’s sinking into fascist doomsday rhetoric is working. The polls are moving towards him as he descends into madness. Half of the country seems to long for fascism.

We’re fucked. Have a nice day.

I’m afraid the polls are very bad.

Isn’t that a shame. They’re such lovely people.

R472 read better next time. If you can’t keep up then work harder.

We had one DL just today that said they won’t vote and have not voted in years because none of those running have deserved their vote. And they are not a maga. A progressive.

Now I know you are not going to claim that DL is not full of people who are constantly bitching and complaining and I do mean constantly because that would mean you don’t actually read DL at all.

“DL the home of—- we do little and complain all the time”

We are not fucked and the doomsday stuff is annoying. The only poll that matters is on Nov 5th.

The polls were wrong in 2016 and the last midterms. Remember the ‘red wave’ that never materialized?

Volunteer and GOTV. Fight! The GOO always fights while democrats take to the fainting couch.

Get some balls and I say this as a woman

Well, EXCUUUUSSSSE ME!! R476, for not reading every single post on the entire DL website this morning. I was doing something useful -- yard work.

Et tu, Brute?

And you never even linked to the thread.

Trump should be losing big. He’s a corrupt, lying lunatic fomenting racial hatred. The fact that the race is tight (and getting tighter as he turns darker) by itself means we’re fucked.

Sure—we’re less fucked if Harris manages to eke out a win, though then a whole new world of shit descends upon us. I almost believe some people are just surrendering to Trump so they don’t have to put up with the hellscape if he loses.

The only hope of redemption would have been a decisive defeat of the Orange Hitler, and that is not happening.

R478 :-)

You honestly think I am going to spend my time looking for comments for you because you can’t spend the time to read yourself?

Actually that sounds like a great idea I will get right on it.

I love that Martha Raddatz on ABC is correcting JD Vance. She isn't letting him get away with his bullshit.

MSN news is now calling Kamala the "Manufactured candidate" even though she was a successful US Senator from America's largest state. All billionaires, including Gates and Buffet, need to be taken down. They are poison.

JD Vance is extremely loathsome.

You don’t know that r479 and quite frankly you sound like a coward

Maybe not this time maybe not next time but it’s only a matter of time before the right sweeps into power.

The right is just more focused, more together, more driven, more vicious, than this version of the left is and when that happens the right will put a strangle hold on things for decades.

The right is all about winning the left is all about being right.

I don’t know that Trump is not losing decisively?

Yes I do.

So does any sane person.

The right is losing their grip and will try to throw more things to the states where they can have more control.

From today's NBC poll:

"Looking back on Trump’s presidency, 48% of voters say they approved of the former president’s job performance. That’s a higher job-approval rating than Trump ever held in the NBC News poll when he was president."

I realize that ex-Presidents' approval ratings typically go up after some time out of office, but this is insane.

We let the salesman Trump get away with the claim that his policies were responsible for the pre-pandemic good economy. Like his fortune, Trump inherited a strong Obama economy.

R485 has a point. The real grievances in this country that make people want to burn it all down and follow a demagogue are the obscene wealth gap and the fact that the rich have seized power through a slow motion coup. People aren’t really being harmed by immigrants. The right is following a well-trodden path of villainizing a minority while the left is bickering amongst ourselves.

However, the radical forces that the right have unleashed may ultimately bite them in the ass.

NYTimes Siena College Poll today:

Hispanic men for Trump: 45%

Other than “burning the left,” I don’t understand why people are voting for Trump. He will literally destroy our country. He has no economic plan and will primarily focus on retribution. How is that appealing to anyone unless they are suicidal?

I think he is marshaling two powerful urges.

One is the typical fascist playbook of demonizing a minority. In this case he has the advantage that a lot of immigrants are here outside of legal process, so he can hide this demonization behind a veneer of being concerned about enforcing the law. This provides cover.

Second, there is a great deal wrong with our system. Some of it is the fault is with the right which has been captured by big business and the rich and protects their interests above all, but wraps itself in the flag and claims to be fighting for freedom. Some of it is that a system designed in 1787 is no longer able to work properly in 2024. So we have both corruption and paralysis both of which feed a “burn it all down” animus. Only one side is trying to capture this animus.

It doesn’t help that the left has gone a bit nuts and has been fighting little battles while ignoring the fact that there is a big war going on.

R492 NBC Universal and the Trump corporation basically Manchurian candidate the American public the past 2 decades. Media is powerful.

Unfortunately I don’t think most of his voters recognize the danger. They think he will be good for the country because they have a misguided belief that he is strong and will deport all illegal immigrants. They don’t care about dangerous or crazy aspects of Trump.

R493 two thoughts —-they are demonizing a minority who are in this country illegally. It’s the latter that makes the former fly.

A strong nonporous border is in all Americans interest. Not having illegals makes sense. The gop owns these issues and Americans care about them.

And trump knew what he was doing when he got the gop to kill the needed new bipartisan border agreement,

^ They also haven’t given any thought to how that will work. Somehow he will magically round up all illegal immigrants but spare the ones they know. They are not expecting that the Canadian dad down the street will be taken out of his bed in handcuffs while his kids watch or the 80 year old Mexican man who has been here since 1970 will be dragged out of his car during a traffic stop and taken to a detention camp.

You are correct they have not t(ought this thru and that is beside the point. It’s an election issue if it makes sense or not.

It’s possible that once Trump gets in power again the “round up the illegals” cause will receive just as much attention and resources as “build a beautiful wall” did the first time. Lip service.

R495–This is the great lie. Everyone says “We need a secure border.” Can’t really argue with that.

But the presence of large numbers of undocumented immigrants has served our economy. Most of them are not bothering anyone and very few people have actually suffered any real harm from them. Instead of securing the border, Republicans have kept it porous because the “foreigners among us” argument carries so much water for them. Now it’s murderers and killers on the loose, raping our daughters and stabbing our grandparents?

Then when pressed on how fascist this is you can fall back on “What’s wrong with securing the border?

Nothing is wrong with securing the border, but the alleged evils befalling us from having failed to do that are largely fictional.

^meant r496

NATO, Ukraine, the Red State, the Biden family, several other political enemies who will be on his hit list , these will get trumps attention.

I doubt trump will much care about immigrants if he gets back in.

The real heavy lifting will be done by the Mike Johnson’s and those who make Mike Johnson look reasonable and caring.

The great irony is that all this inflammatory rhetoric is because Trump thinks immigrants seeking “asylum” means they are mentally ill and that their being admitted on “parole” means they are criminals. That’s the origin of his “they’re sending us their criminals and their mentally ill.”

Sad.

R493 the left isn't ignorring any battles, major or minor. Your idea of what the left is up to is formed by right wing media and you're so stupid you don't even realize that. The media in this country have been effectively a right wing monopoly since the late 1980s. It was all laid about by Chomseky in "Manufacting Consent" Why do you think Republicans have been so keen to attack the media, which they've already dismantled as a social force?

Remember the rules: Repuvblicans always accuse others of what they themselves do (such as voter fraud: see recent Colorado case); and 2) they create a problem and blame it on the left (such as Bush encouraing Muslim immigration and his labor secretary approving movement of millions of jobs to China on the grounds that American workes are "lazy." This also why Bill Gates and other plutocrats have been obsessed with giving money to Africa and not to American workers).

R500 yes you are 100% correct. But that makes no difference. It sells.

One if the strongest Harris statements so far—-“I have a Glock and I will use it”

That’s the kind of shit that sells

[quote] People aren’t really being harmed by immigrants.

Low wage earners most definitely are. I’d guess the net effect is positive, but it bugs me that people who don’t mow their own lawns, have full time childcare, and eat out a lot benefit more than the working poor.

Most people want more controls around immigration, more clarity. So why can’t democrats give people what they want? And I’ve heard the explanations about how republicans have blocked immigration reform, but democrats don’t really drive that home. They don’t harp on it. And they don’t campaign on promises about it. I’m speaking in absolutes when I say that “democrats don’t” and there are nuances, but a significant number of people are suspicious of this. They can forgive a felony conviction, playing loose with facts because they can understand the motivation behind it. But when something doesn’t make sense, that’s harder to overlook. The American public clearly wants one thing (I don’t mean it’s the most important issue for most people, I just mean that a very substantial majority of Americans are in agreement about wanting curbs on immigration). So when democratic leaders don’t embrace this issue the disconnect causes suspicion. The only reason Trump won in 2016 was immigration. The only reason he has any chance at all in 2024 is immigration. So why are democrats willing to lose over it? If it’s because they sincerely feel that the net impact on the economy is positive why can’t they own that and at least make their reasoning known and promise to work towards making the process more transparent to the American public? Just tell people, “Hey, you are already bitching that a Big Mac costs X and you want affordable child care. Well, neither of those will improve without a LOT of immigration. And we can’t do mass deportations. The logistics would be ridiculous. That’s a nonstarter. So it’s not going away, but right now we plan to admit about x people under this program, y under this one, and this many people are currently living in the country with abc status….” What’s the plan? What can we expect going forward? If you state the numbers, then your opponent has the opportunity to contradict you and I can assess who is credible. If you don’t, then I’m suspicious.

I know there are dozens of examples where republican (and democratic) politicians mislead on other issues. But this is such a big one and it’s something that the overwhelming majority of Americans want. Why the lack of straightforwardness?

Explain your plan, don’t move the goalposts about what constitutes “illegal” immigration and then use that to justify it after the fact when people start complaining about large numbers of immigrants in their communities. Tell us the plan. Keep reminding us of the plan. Let us know the timing of all the votes on the plan. And when the republicans block the plan, shout about it.

I’ll vote for Harris because she is unobjectionable and seems pretty clean for a politician. I don’t care if her husband has done some questionable things in his personal life and I definitely don’t care if she dated men who may or may not have helped her career. If that’s the worst they can dig up on her then as far as I’m concerned she’s a saint. But the immigration thing bugs me.

Tina Peters

Low wage earners support Harris. They know Republicans abominate the minimum wage so all your bombast is nonsense R505. The people voting for Trump because immigration are not poor wage earners. They are Republcian racist bigots searching for any excuse in the world to shore up their social status in arrogant bigots little towns and upscale suburbs.

Obama deported more illegals than any REpublican president ever. If you don't know that, R505, you don't know anything. In 2023 there was a BIPARTISAN deal for higher border security that Republicans sabotaged because Trump wanted to run on immigration. Why? BEcause he has nothing else to run on, no policies at ALL to make life better for Americans.

R509, it’s actually a misunderstood bit of fiction that Obama was deported in chief. Expulsions from inside the country went down, but returns and denial at the border went up.

[quote] r493] the left isn't ignorring any battles, major or minor. Your idea of what the left is up to is formed by right wing media and you're so stupid you don't even realize that.

That’s odd that I don’t consume any right wing media.

The left is obsessed with its own ideology which has little to say about the concerns of most Americans. We are fighting over “micro aggressions” and the definition of ‘woman” and arguing over whether being “anti-Zionist” is somehow different from being antisemetic.

Meanwhile, we seek to defend the status quo against a highly successful, organized right-wing assault while saying nothing about the fact that our system of government has been entirely captured by the corporations and the ultra-wealthy. We offer tax credits, legal weed and other band-aids while the right has captured multiple state legislatures through systematic gerrymandering and the federal judiciary through The Federalist Society.

If you think we are effectively fighting the slow, inexorable takeover by the right, I’d like some of what you’re smoking.

R508 R509 I have not checked recently I guess that means that Harris is crushing Trump in the polls today?

If what trump is doing is working why should he or anyone else care about your well stated truthful statements?

Trump isn't going to deport any illegals. If he did, he wouldn't have anybody left to clean his toilets at Mar-a-Lago or cut the grass at his golf courses.

Elon is messing with X (Twitter) because I am getting some Repug/MAGA posts on there. One of them said that Tim Walz had a gay student stay with them who he was fooling around with.

Are there pics, r514?

[Quote] Nobody but old people have landlines and they vote Republican anyway (nothing new)

Not true. Every restaurant, public school, police precinct, hospital, small business, doctor's office rely on landlines. When you call a pizza parlor, or your doctor's office you're not getting someone on a cell phone you're calling a landline.

I only look at posts by people I follow on Twitter. I don’t trust the “for you” algorithm Musk installed. Though I’ve never seen any right-wing crap in it. Just unreliable left sources.

r514 no pics of the student, they showed the mug shot of Walz darkened to look sinister

^^^ that was for r515

It's not enough to round up illegals and deport them. They need to serve long prison sentences first.

Imagine trying to illegally live and work in Mexico. See what they do to you.

Great idea, R520. Let's add the cost of a long imprisonment to the cost of rounding them up.

On the bright side

New prison construction, lots of hiring of new staff, profit for the owners of the private prisons. Less illegals on the streets. I am not so sure I would go as far as you with—-“Great idea”

But a lot of people, not anyone on DL, would love those jobs.

R521

[quote]Other than “burning the left,” I don’t understand why people are voting for Trump. He will literally destroy our country. He has no economic plan and will primarily focus on retribution. How is that appealing to anyone unless they are suicidal?

R492 That's exactly why I say that if he is re-elected, we deserve whatever we get in a second Trump term. If you'd rather live under authoritarian, quasi-fascist rule because you hate liberals, minorities and illegals more than you love a democratic system with rights and the rule of law, have at it. We'll all suffer, but I voted for Kamala and freedom, so I'll have no guilt.

R523 democracy in action is voting for a right wing or conservative govt because those are the values you support. And voting that way is indeed using the democratic system within the rule of law. You just won’t like the outcome if they win,.

I on the other hand will be voting this year for the 2 nd best senate choice. Not the first best. I can’t vote for the best one because he is a gop. So I will vote for 2nd best and the only thing I know about her is that she was a tax cheat and got caught.

But being a dem she will get my vote

R520 Have you looked into your own family background? Are you 100% certain that your own family came to the US legally, never told any fibs to get in and were welcomed with open arms?

The last time I heard some bloodthirsty fool calling for mass imprisonment of people who entered illegally or legally and later became undocumented, he had to eat humble pie when he did his family tree and found out that his grandfather was illegal. His grandfather came on a tourist visa and never went home.

We are not pulling people out of their homes, throwing them in prison (on our dime) and televising it to satisfy your thirst for vengeance. We can certainly change our laws to make legal immigration easier, we can make it more difficult to claim asylum, we can target human traffickers, we can speed up claims and we deport people who commit violent crime if we have more staff to process them. We can and should do a lot but we're not spending billions to humiliate and terrorize people who have been here paying taxes and minding their business. We are better than that.

R525 speak the truth brother the US would never do that. Bad countries do that. We are better than that.

[quote]They don’t care about dangerous or crazy aspects of Trump.

Which are the only aspects of Trump that are truthful. The rest is MAGA fantasy.

R525 it’s 2024 not 1982 but if trump wins and a similar outbreak like 1982 were to occur you can bet your ass the admin would be having internal discussions about camps.

No question,. And cost or not camp construction would start.

It's raining men... lolz

If Trump is tied with Kamala now, why? Is it because of all the anti-immigrant hatred? That does not speak well of the United States, or what it used to be.

[quote]Unfortunately I don’t think most of his voters recognize the danger. They think he will be good for the country because they have a misguided belief that he is strong and will deport all illegal immigrants. They don’t care about dangerous or crazy aspects of Trump.

Democrats could have 100% neutralized the issue if the Biden administration had deported the illegal immigrants first. We know from the polling that a majority of Americans want illegal aliens deported. It would help the Democrats to look at what the broad swath of Americans want and not set policy based on just what college students and Hollywood demand.

Have you had your home cleaned or had your roof replaced or had landscaping done or eaten produce grown in America? Good luck not paying $400 an hour to have a maid come vacuum and dust your house once Democrats deport all the “illegal aliens”.

Keep trolling, r531.

[quote] The last time I heard some bloodthirsty fool calling for mass imprisonment of people who entered illegally or legally and later became undocumented, he had to eat humble pie when he did his family tree and found out that his grandfather was illegal. His grandfather came on a tourist visa and never went home.

From a shithole country?

[quote] Democrats could have 100% neutralized the issue if the Biden administration had deported the illegal immigrants first.

But we don’t believe in deportation. It’s cruel and economically suicidal.

[quote]But we don’t believe in deportation. It’s cruel and economically suicidal.

That's fine, but people shouldn't then whine about losing votes over the issue.

Why not? It’s losing over demagoguery and hate. Plenty to complain about.

r529 I'm pretty sure they chose that song because Grenell is gay. Maybe he chose it. Idk.

[quote]I’m afraid the polls are very bad.

and yet again we have to remind you:

[bold]POLLS

DON'T

FUCKING

VOTE.[/bold]

And neither do vibes.

Don’t worry. Congress will save us.

[quote]If Trump is tied with Kamala now, why? Is it because of all the anti-immigrant hatred? That does not speak well of the United States, or what it used to be.

That's a big part of it, but I've given up on wondering why people support Trump. They're in a world of their own. It is embarrassing that so many Americans support an idiot who was and will be a joke on the World stage if elected again.

"Could you please be more civil and stop calling people who worship dictators, actively hate women and want to put immigrants in camps Nazis? It's hurtful language."

Sure thing, sport.

I’m still hopeful but we can’t underestimate how much Americans hate women and minorities. It’s always a struggle to move forward.

My ballot has been received, filled out, sent in, received on the other end and counted.

Trump's support from minorities this time around is going to surprise many here.

How far a pivot to the middle are Democrats willing to accept from Harris if it helps her beat Trump? I'm fully on board.

[Quote] How far a pivot to the middle are Democrats willing to accept from Harris

A pivot to the middle? How much more centrist can the Democratic Party be than it already is?

[quote]Trump's support from minorities this time around is going to surprise many here.

Thanks for letting us know, Miss Cleo.

One of Jonathan Martin's suggestions is that Kamala announce she'll name Mitt Romney her Sec. of State. That that would help her with Mormons in Nevada & Arizona.

^And signal she won't let Trump's tax cuts completely expire next year.

[quote] Low wage earners support Harris.

They definitely don’t.

R546, Democrats won’t go for it.

From Martin's article:

[quote] Harris will “have to” govern from the center, said Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi, “because that’s where the public is.”

[quote] Have you had your home cleaned or had your roof replaced or had landscaping done

Yes, and they weren’t illegals. They were white. Get out of your WeHo bubble advocating for slavery, which is what the pro-illegals shits on the left is pushing for. These people aren’t on the books thus they can be taken advantage of but that’s okay because they clean out toilets for Americans for 2 cents an hour. The left is out to lunch. This is why people are voting Republican in record numbers. An idiot like Trump shouldn’t be a thing. He is because of the left. They’re elitists. They didn’t have a problem with their virtue-signaling sanctuary cities until illegals ended up on their doorsteps.

[quote]Trump's support from minorities this time around is going to surprise many here.

But will it be as big a surprise as when they learned that other human beings may have views that differ in some way from theirs?

The "alternate reality" needs to be taken down step by step. THe Heritage Foundation needs to be sued for fraud until they no longer exist.

Fox News is going to be more impartial on election night than CNN. CNN is going to put up a black screen and go into mourning if Dump loses. It’s ridiculous. I’m waiting for “Americans prefer Cheerios over Shredded Wheat. Why this data is VERY BAD NEWS FOR DEMS”

R557, except actual history and reality say otherwise.

Ice removals and returns by year As you can see the Obama years 2009-2016 had a much higherr rather or removals than the GW Bush years. 2001-2008 Biden also had a much higher removal rate than Trump.

171,445 2018 328,716 159,940 2017 287,093 100,695 20164 331,717 106,458 2015 325,328 129,661 2014 405,090 163,843 2013 432,228 178,976 2012 415,607 231,107 2011 390,423 322,047 2010 382,449 471,798 2009 379,739 582,567 2008 359,795 811,263 2007 319,382 891,390 2006 280,974 1,043,381 2005 246,431 1,096,920 2004 240,665 1,166,576 2003 211,098 945,294 2002 165,168 1,012,116 2001 189,026 1,349,371

I can't bear the thought of seeing his face and hearing him speak for four years. Again. UNACCEPTABLE!

CNN and most networks will be thrilled if Trump loses. He is a dangerous and disliked megalomaniac.

R557, will Bret (we need to “put [Arizona] back in [Trump’s] column”) Baier be anchoring Fox’s election night coverage again?

Fox has said in court that they offer entertainment, not news, and all their hardcore fans know it is a propaganda channel. Their claim that anythijng which is not Fox is equally liberal propaganda is a l ie that anybody can see through by now, including all their die-hard fams.

Their fans take them seriously and they know it.

Which is why Trump said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his fans wouldn't care, because they have an infinite capacity to accept lies. Well, we have to stop coddling this attitude.

SNL cold open 10/12

r554, a brilliant troll post... of course people are voting for Republicans in droves.

An appeal to "common sense" and an appeal to authority all rolled into one. Very sophisticated but wrong.

R554 if the citizens of DL all lived along the southern border , the border, border security, and the illegals fucking up the lives of the DL would be topic #1 #2 #3 on the DL

DL would be nothing but border complaints.

But the Republicans have said that ALL states are border states!

As a Nevadan, I see none of it. I am more concerned with the homeless in Las Vegas and Clark County.

And never forget that the Enemy Within is everyone who is not a Klan Sympathizer.

[quote]Have you looked into your own family background? Are you 100% certain that your own family came to the US legally, never told any fibs to get in and were welcomed with open arms?

r525 I'm not r520 but if that's the criteria we're going by to determine who can and can't be concerned about illegal immigration, then I have cart blanche to have whatever opinion I want about it considering my family got here by being kidnapped and forced into hard labor on southern plantations.

That said, the illegal immigration issue is indeed a huge voter concern since it's been put into the backyards of more Americans after governor Abbott decided to bus a bunch of them to non-border states. That has turned the issue into not just a border state issue. It has also become an issue in swing states like Michigan. Needless to say, a lot of us Michiganders weren't feeling this shit. Especially not with so many struggling to find adequate housing as it is.

[quote]The countries sending the most refugees to Michigan last year were Syria (36%), Democratic Republic of Congo (30%), Iraq (7%) and Afghanistan (6%).

All Muslim countries. How wonderful. I'm so happy to have more of them here, especially since they haven't been fully integrated into American culture like the ones who were born here and know how to properly assimilate and mind their business. It's great. Really.

If the border crisis is real, why do Republicans have to make up shit about migrant crime, gangs taking over cities and Haitians eating pets?

By “real’ I mean an actual problem in people’s lives as opposed to something that makes them angry or afraid?

R572 You do realize that politics is about wining not passing an honesty test?

[quote]By “real’ I mean an actual problem in people’s lives

r572 It is a real problem, mostly for low-wage workers, though. Republicans aren't going to win votes by casting a light on how illegal immigration is hurting the one demographic they historically don't give two shits about. So, they use hyperbole to get their attention.

[quote]If the border crisis is real, why do Republicans have to make up shit about migrant crime, gangs taking over cities and Haitians eating pets?

R572 How else are you going to stir up your base that consists primarily of far-right fascists, racists and uneducated assholes who think they the only "real" Americans? Fearmongering has long been a useful campaign tactic in this country. Trump is just the latest to exploit it. Plus, that's all he has left, no policies, no platform, no sanity. They did the same thing during the 2022 midterms. It was crime and caravans nonstop until the election was held. After that, crickets.

So the “problem” is that unskilled workers are losing jobs to immigrants? When Alabama enacted a law clamping down on hiring illegal immigrants, some time ago, they could not find anyone willing to work in the fields. They had to repeal the law. Because our economy depends on hard-working manual laborers and experience shows our own citizen unskilled aren’t willing to work so hard.

Certainly, the vast majority of MAGA voters are not motivated by the impact of migrants on the unskilled poor. They are motivated by baser concerns mingled with a desire for order at the border which we all agree is needed. There was an agreement that Trump cynically killed.

But I don’t want to hear any MAGA apologists explaining how this is a “real” problem for most MAGA voters. It just isn’t.

“It just isn’t”

That’s telling them.

[quote] If the border crisis is real, why do Republicans have to make up shit about migrant crime, gangs taking over cities and Haitians eating pets? By “real’ I mean an actual problem in people’s lives as opposed to something that makes them angry or afraid?

This whole thread is about making or keeping people angry and afraid.

[quote]our own citizen unskilled aren’t willing to work so hard.

They're lazy and shiftless.

They are not that desperate.

Hey speaking of caravans, whatever happened to those? Did Putin forget to pay the coyotes?

The caravans miraculously vaporized right after the last election!

Praise Jesus!

He thrives on fear and chaos, OP. Don't empower the Beast.

572, even after the Soviet Union fell and Putin became the friend of the far right, Republicans still needed an enemy. Republicans always need an enemy and when you befriend the enemy, WE become the enemy.

No surprise when Trump cites that the enemy within, as the current enemy. What he does not say is that it is ALL of us. He is a hateful fucker.

Yes-I woke up this morning to find that I’m the enemy!- kinda makes ya feel special!

What is Joseph Kennedy II's health condition?

He is sick about having a brother who is a piece of Trump shit.

Ah, so that’s where my post landed. My bad.

r588 Were you really looking for it? If so...LOL.

I wasn’t actually looking, R589. I just assumed I had failed to formally post it.

The Enemy Within. This is truly a sick adn evil man.

I hope Kamala makes a campaign ad about Trump listlessly dancing for 39 minutes! How the fuck could anyone vote for him?

The crowd cheered and danced to the Village People song from the 1970s, which celebrates gay cruising culture. Noem put her hands up in the shape of a “Y.” As the song began to end, Trump mouthed the words: “Nobody’s leaving.”

“Nobody’s leaving, what’s going on? There’s nobody leaving. Keep going,” he said, as Rufus Wainwright’s version of “Hallelujah” played next. “All right, turn that music up! Turn that up. Great song!”

Then it was “Nothing Compares 2 U” by Sinéad O’Connor. “An American Trilogy” by Elvis Presley. “Rich Men North of Richmond” by Oliver Anthony. Trump stood and swayed.

As “November Rain” by Guns N’ Roses played, he walked off the stage. He spoke to attendees on his way out, as “Memory” from “Cats” the musical played in the background.

This is a farce, How can it be? How can enough of the country think this is viable that he's got a shot? And these antics are while he's trying to get elected.

He probably will paint the White House gold.

He's a lunatic.

When thinking of Trump& his appeal, I'm often reminded of what Sen. Roman Hruska, SCOTUS nominee G. Harrold Carswell's chief supporter said when defending his man against charges that he was a mediocre attorney. "Even if he [Carswell] were mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren't they? We can't have all Brandeises and Frankfurters and Cardozos."

In the case of Trump, there are a lot of cranks in this country, & they, too, are entitled to representation.

[quote]The crowd cheered and danced to the Village People song from the 1970s, which celebrates gay cruising culture.

39 minutes Trump bathed in the adulation of a Dictator.

The doors were locked.

R594 again. I just don't get it. I can understand people taking the view I vote Republican, always, because I'd vote Democrat, always. No matter how hard I had to hold my nose some times. So in theory I get that.

But look at the guy. What I don't get is how reasonably intelligent people who are Republican rather than MAGA can still say I vote Republican, always, when this guy is the result.

Yesterday's rally top ten dance hits was - I mean, how much more do you need?

Surely these people, if they can't vote Democrat for president this once, will stay home? How does anybody who's Republican first vote for Donald Trump?

Fucking chaos will come. It will make the first term look plausible.

[quote] It will make the first term look plausible.

Yes, we'll long for the days when there were still adults in the room.