Japanese atomic bomb survivors win Nobel Peace Prize

Good

Well that’s no fun. How will Trump turn this into a grievance?

It makes me sick every time I think about those bombs being dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

It was a terrible time in human history.

Worse than having to learn German or Japanese? Worse than dying in a death camp in the SE Asian jungle or a frozen field in Eastern Europe??

It was a a valid judgment when made in 1945.

You'll be gone soon R5.

As will everyone

As terrible as the nuclear bomb is, more people would have died had the United States been forced to invade and occupy Japan.

ChatGPT:

Yes, it is widely believed that more deaths would have occurred if the United States had not received Japan’s unconditional surrender and had instead been forced to invade Japan. Historical estimates suggest that a full-scale invasion, planned as Operations Olympic and Coronet (part of Operation Downfall), would have led to a prolonged and bloody conflict.

Here are some key reasons for the expected high death toll:

1. Fanatical Resistance: The Japanese military and civilian population were prepared to defend the homeland at all costs. The Japanese government had instilled a strong sense of duty and honor, with many willing to fight to the death rather than surrender. Civilians were even trained to resist with basic weapons, which would have led to significant civilian casualties.

2. High Allied Casualties: The United States military estimated that the invasion of Japan could result in hundreds of thousands of Allied casualties, with some estimates suggesting 250,000 to 1 million U.S. soldiers killed or wounded.

3. Japanese Military Casualties: The Japanese military, despite being weakened, still had hundreds of thousands of soldiers stationed in Japan. They were expected to fight fiercely, causing significant Japanese military casualties.

4. Civilian Casualties: The urban areas of Japan had already been devastated by conventional bombing raids, and the invasion would have involved large-scale fighting in populated areas, leading to massive civilian deaths.

While the dropping of the atomic bombs resulted in approximately 200,000 deaths (both immediate and from radiation effects), the alternative of a land invasion could have caused far greater loss of life on both sides, prolonging the war into 1946 or beyond.

FYI

Operation Olympic and Operation Coronet were the two phases of Operation Downfall, the planned Allied invasion of Japan during World War II. These operations were developed in 1945 to force Japan’s surrender if the atomic bombs and diplomatic efforts did not lead to Japan’s unconditional surrender. Here’s a breakdown of both operations:

Operation Olympic

• Objective: To invade the southern island of Kyushu, the third-largest and southernmost of Japan’s four main islands.

• Timeline: Scheduled for November 1, 1945.

• Forces: Involved a massive amphibious assault, with U.S. troops landing at multiple points along Kyushu’s southern coast.

• Strategic Goal: To secure airbases and establish a foothold for a larger invasion of Japan’s main island, Honshu, which would come in the second phase (Operation Coronet).

• Resistance: U.S. planners anticipated fierce resistance. The Japanese military had anticipated an invasion of Kyushu and heavily fortified the island, with hundreds of thousands of soldiers prepared to defend it.

• Casualty Estimates: Some military officials estimated that U.S. casualties could be between 250,000 and 500,000 in the invasion of Kyushu alone. Japanese civilian and military casualties were expected to be much higher.

Operation Coronet

• Objective: To launch a massive assault on Honshu, Japan’s largest and most populous island, particularly targeting the Tokyo Plain.

• Timeline: Planned for March 1946, after securing Kyushu in Operation Olympic.

• Forces: This would have been an even larger invasion than Operation Olympic, involving over 40 divisions from the U.S. and Allied forces, potentially the largest amphibious operation of the war.

• Strategic Goal: The capture of Tokyo and the heart of Japan, forcing the Japanese government to surrender.

• Resistance: Even greater resistance was expected in Honshu, with Japanese forces, both military and civilian, preparing for an all-out defense of their homeland.

• Casualty Estimates: Estimates varied, but some predicted upwards of 1 million Allied casualties and potentially millions of Japanese military and civilian deaths due to the expected ferocity of the fighting and the possibility of mass suicides among civilians.

Why the Plans Were Not Executed

The dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, along with the Soviet Union’s declaration of war on Japan, pushed Japan to surrender in August 1945, before Operation Downfall could be put into motion. The potential cost in human lives—both Japanese and Allied—was one of the reasons why the atomic bombs were seen as a necessary evil by many military planners and political leaders at the time.

If you've ever seen The Fog of War, Robert McNamara, while he was very unapologetic for the actions, acknowledged that between Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the firebombing of Tokyo (which was arguably worse than the two atomic bombings), he'd have been hanged as a war criminal if Japan had won.

That actually became relevant during the Nuremberg trials, because the tribunal didn't allow the defendants to point out between those acts on Japan and the firebombing of Dresden, the Allies had also attacked civilians.

This is way too nuanced of an issue for the DL.

Nuance has already been expressed^. It can be handled

Critics of what the US did against Japan and Germany during the war tend to ignore the atrocities they had committed to the US and other allies. Germany's blitzkrieg towards residential areas of England resulted in 45,00 to 50,00 deaths and over 125,000 serious injuries, while the allied bombings of Dresden caused about 22,000 deaths. Japan's massacre of Nanking caused a minimum of 250,000 deaths not counting the rapes of women and children. Remember Japan and Germany were the instigators of WWII in their quest for global domination. To expect the response to only be with less or equal in casualties is absurd.

If you're in doubt about whether the U.S. should have used atomic bombs, please, remember: One bomb was not enough. After the U.S. bombed Hiroshima, Japan [italic]still[/italic] did not surrender. It took two bombs and the threat of the Soviet army to get Japan to surrender.

R13. That to me had always been the primary argument against critics of the nuclear bomb drop.

[quote] This is way too nuanced of an issue for the DL.

Lots of issues are too nuanced for DL.

Breathing is too nuanced from most —followed by having any sense of humor.