Was it a huge mistake that Biden “quitted” the election ?

Why do you ask, OP?

Again.

The June debate was a big mistake.

The June debate was a godsend. It forced the issue early enough for resolution.

He should have quit earlier.

Not having an open convention was a huge mistake. She didn't earn a single vote and now here she is in mid-October struggling.

Who fucking knows. I'm so damned sick of them all.

He would've lost guaranteed.

What r6 said. I needed this election to be over with last week already.

[quote] Not having an open convention was a huge mistake. She didn't earn a single vote and now here she is in mid-October struggling.

The fact that you are surprised she didn’t win a single vote tells us all we need to know. She is Biden’s vice-president. Under what circumstances would she be running for president against Biden? The mind boggles.

She is not struggling at all. Probably only Obama and Bill Clinton have been so sure-footed as campaigners. If the polling were predominantly determined by relative effectiveness in campaigning, Trump would be losing against almost any imaginable opponent. He’s barely trying. The sad fact is that he has a certain solid base of support that is not negotiable. No matter how badly he performs or how well his opponent performs, he’s going to get that vote.

Only a very small percentage of the vote is up for grabs. I can’t imagine anyone competing for those more successfully than Harris has. I don’t predict that she will definitely succeed. But if she loses that doesn’t mean she didn’t do a great job.

No it was a huge mistake that he didn’t do so sooner.

Ask again after Election Day, when the merits or demerits of the decision will be more apparent.

OP

R11. We won’t know even on Election Day. Even if she loses, it doesn’t mean it’s the wrong decision.

OP, are you just a hand-ringer or a troll? Based on your STARTING these 3 threads, I’m guessing you have a (poorly executed) goal:

[quote] I am afraid Trump might win I’m scared. What should we do ?

[quote] Was it a huge mistake that Biden “quitted” the election ? Just curious

[quote] How long this Harris hype gonna last ? It is still July…

R5 She's struggling ? She's tied with Trump in some polls, but in the important swing states, she's mostly leading. How does this translate into 'struggling' to you ?

Good sleuthing, r14.

OP is obviously a troll.

A small part of me feels that even if Trump won a popular vote, the electors, or 'powers that be' would cause a Florida flip, or any other trick. Trump is too dangerous, completely out of control, and capable of being deleterious to the Republican party.

The first time he won, he hadn't given any real indication of just how uncontrollably disastrous he could be, this time, EVERYBODY knows what he's capable of.

No. But I am dissatisfied with the way this played out.

[quote]Not having an open convention was a huge mistake.

No, THAT would have been a mistake. A bunch of would-be candidates coming out of the woodwork, with little or no vetting of any of them, followed by intra-party infighting that would sink their candidate. There wouldn't be the unity that exists behind Kamala.

No, thank you.

He left only after widespread criticism and concern.

People need to calm the fuck down

He should have announced he wasn't running for re-election two years ago. It would have given more than enough time to field candidates, get Harris battletested. Time will tell if it was the best decision, but this isn't a scenario that should EVER happen again.

That being said, she's done a great job in spite of extreme circumstances. But the last two to three weeks have been rough. The VP debate was not the blowout it should have been. Obama's comments are generating a lot of criticism. They need to reign it in. But I really wish she would stop with the bipartisan bullshit. It's getting ridiculous between praising Dick Cheney, stressing the need for Republicans in your administration. And it's completely counterproductive to the fact that all the Republicans would march in lockstep with Trump in helping to destroy this country if they could.

I do think without a doubt she will win the popular vote, but it's the electoral college that's going to be a problem. And the polls are all over the map. I keep hearing that she's in big trouble in Michigan. It only takes a small handful of votes to flip things.

Take your concern and shove it deep into your prolapse

We could shove it into yours, but we'd have to get Dick Cheney's fist out of there first R23.

I just think it's odd that he gave a rousing State of the Union address, then 4 mos. later is a befuddled debater. Did he have a stroke? Is he faking?

The State of the Union was viewed as a fluke. People were already very concerned then.

Fuck. You. Magat. R24

[quote]Time will tell if it was the best decision, but this isn't a scenario that should EVER happen again.

I don't understand the hatred for Biden. He got more done in his first two years than any other modern POTUS has in their full 8 years, and that includes the kiss-the-ground-he-walks-on Obama, who in 8 years got one major thing done, and even that was due to Nancy Pelosi's ability to wrangle the House, let alone that the ACA only accomplished about a quarter of what he promised in the election. Compare and contrast that with Biden's passage of the Rescue and Recovery Act, the Chips and Science Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, all of which have resulted in a booming economy with low unemployment, record jobs growth, the fasted growing GDP among industrialized nations, and inflation that has been tamed back to the historically sustainable and preferable 2.5%. He's managed the war in Ukraine brilliantly: not a single US boot on the ground, and yet we've brought Putin to the point that he's just hanging on until the outcome of this election, and should Kamala win, I think we'll see a resolution to this war in short order; Putin simply doesn't have another 600,000 soldiers to toss into the meat grinder. His only hope is a DonOld "victory" wherein he serves up Ukraine on a silver platter as we watch Putin torture and kill every last Ukrainian.

It took the holy Gad-damned [italic]New York TImes[/italic] five years of front-page "he's old" stories to set the table for the Republikkkans. There's no doubt that Biden did and could fulfill the responsibilities of the office of the presidency, but Americans and specifically Democrats forgot that we're not voting for the singular man in the Oval, but their policies and the administration they head. This idea that the fate of the nation rests on the head of a single person is just one of the most ridiculous notions Americans have, and all I can say is at least the illness affects the Republikkkans in equal measure.

We are not in normal times. The idea that the Democrats could have held a bruising campaign in contrast to the anointment of Orange Jebus is ludicrous. The only way Democrats will prevail is if there is party unity behind an overly qualified candidate who doesn't bring a lot of baggage with them, and aside from Kamala, I can't think of a single Democrat that otherwise fit the bill. And frankly, it's part of Joe Biden's genius that he selected Kamala for VP, and then chose her as his replacement this year. It's the only time in my lifetime (and I'm old) that I've seen the Democrats in array, with this much enthusiasm, this much energy, and a coalition from across the political spectrum behind the ticket. If that doesn't tell you we're not in normal times, nothing will.

Not a single thing Biden did can equate to Obamacare. Before that law, unless you were super wealthy, everyone lived in fear of developing a chronic illness or losing a job. And working until 65 was mandatory for most people because they become uninsurable as they neared that age.

Biden has been a respectable president, but nothing he did remotely compares to Obamacare and guiding us out of the Great Recession.

Would you seriously trade Obamacare for the entirety of Biden’s legislation?. Yes, it’s a lot of legislation and much of it was laudable, but if you think any of it has anything remotely like the practical value of Obamacare you are delusional or super wealthy.

I addition, even if the absurd claim that Biden had a more valuable presidency than Obama were true, it would still have been absurd and selfish of him to pursue being president into his late 80s. He deserves whatever ridicule or contempt comes his way for that lunatic idea.

No, OP, it definitely wasn't a mistake. If Biden had stayed in, the focus would STILL be on his age & infirmity, not Trump's. Almost the ENTIRE reason Harris is leading in most polls is because she's generating legitimate enthusiasm. Unlike others, I truly don't think it made a difference that Biden didn't drop out till July. The polls would be neck-and-neck under nearly any scenario, and it's absolutely possible that the Democratic candidate would be *worse* off had there been an open primary. (Imagine if the Democratic nominee proved to have as many skeletons in their closet as Vance. Who's also *in* the closet.)

Harris's lone "negative," one obviously not specific to her, is being a woman: as DL's own utterly vile misogynists make amply clear, some men are threatened by women in some capacity and despise them for it. DL queens hate them because they get to fuck the hot guys they lust after. Black & Latino men have cultures steeped in macho bullshit, which is why Harris is polling at least 10 points behind Biden with both groups. (The fact that Obama had to give a speech aimed *specifically* at Black men should be a clear indicator.)

I have no idea how you've gotten the impression that she would somehow do *worse* than Biden, but even if that was your initial assumption, it should've been cleared up months ago. Harris didn't miss a step, and even her somewhat surprise choice of Walz versus Shapiro or Secretary Pete turned out to be wise. Also, she's MUCH more than made up for her loss of support among those two groups with far higher approval ratings from all voters under 40, left-leaning voters, and suburban women. (The latter group is what saved America's collective ass in 2020, so please skip the usual "frau" bullshit.)

[quote]everyone lived in fear of developing a chronic illness or losing a job...

And what's changed? The only real benefit we got out of the ACA was the prohibition on pre-existing conditions. And while that is major, it was nowhere near the public option, let alone the single-payer we were promised. Don't get me wrong; Obamacare was the first consequential law that brought healthcare to millions. But don't get too wound up over it, either; it is not comprehensive healthcare reform.

And as I wrote, the reason it passed was Nancy Pelosi, who worked (even against Obama as he backtracked) tirelessly to make it happen. It shouldn't be called Obamacare, frankly; it should be called Pelosicare, but that's a can of worms I don't want to open.

[quote]Would you seriously trade Obamacare for the entirety of Biden’s legislation?.

I've had to sit here and think about this. Probably not, for personal reasons, but others would arguably disagree. As an entrepreneur and small business owner, I buy my and my employees healthcare on the exchange, and I'm here to tell you (and have, in threads posted at the time) that the ACA has saved me $thousands annually. But we're forgetting that Obama had a mandate when he entered the office, and for a short period of time, a filibuster-proof Senate. He should have had the bill lined up to pass the moment that Al Franken was seated, if not in the seven months that we had the supermajority before Teddy Kennedy died. But instead, Obama had to play-pretend that he could be a unifier and dick around with Republikkkans for nearly two years while the Kochs ginned up the Tea Party (which is the genesis of MAGA).

That said, if you want to perform a cost-benefit analysis, Biden's record has had a larger impact on more people than Obama's. The ACA benefited Americans, while Biden's accomplishments have benefited the entire world. Further, what you're discounting is Biden's role in Obama's legacy. The whole reason Obama chose Biden was because of his relationships in the Senate going back 50 years. Biden was the grease that lubed Obama's gears, and without him and Pelosi, Obama's record would be mediocre at best.

No. He’d be doing worse.

[quote]And what's changed? The only real benefit we got out of the ACA was the prohibition on pre-existing conditions. And while that is major, it was nowhere near the public option, let alone the single-payer we were promised. Don't get me wrong; Obamacare was the first consequential law that brought healthcare to millions. But don't get too wound up over it, either; it is not comprehensive healthcare reform.

Yes, I will get wound up about it. As a person deep into middle age, it is a huge relief that I don't have to worry about somebody being willing to hire me should I develop a condition that would otherwise make me uninsurable. Although the age-adjusted premiums can be high, they are manageable for even most middle-class people. And if they are impoverished, they usually receive subsidies to pay for it, which is the important thing you leave out.

Of course, it's not universal coverage. Everyone knows that would have failed resoundingly. That is what made Obama such a good president. He knew what was possible and didn't sacrifice the feasible for the ideal. If he had proposed universal coverage, we would have gotten nothing, and you would be blaming him for that. If universal coverage is feasible, why hasn't Biden, the legislative master, even proposed it? Ism't that an even bigger blot on his record? Obviously, Obama was a failed president if you attribute all his successes to other people and don't expect his successor to achieve the things you expected of him. This is a pointless and absurd game.

What on earth would the rest of the world have to thank Biden for that, it wouldn't have Obama, Clinton, etc. to thank for.?

[quote] “quitted”

Oh, dear.

R17, you mean the ONLY time he won (2016), concern troll.

Considering that in a very short time the Democratic Nominee for POTUS has raised more than $1 Billion and has passed that Incoherent pile of shit by two or three points (I grant you it's within the margin of error.) No Biden left just when he needed to. After the GOP had a convention, and had their strategy all plotted out to run against him. The Media's double standard of bullying Biden and giving Trump a free pass when he too is old and definitely in cognitive decline is the reason this race is even close. They normalized him and keep propping him up. There's no real October Surprise. The surprise was in July! LOL!

"Bullying" Biden? Seriously? I'll just go ahead and assume you've never had to personally deal with the trauma of taking the keys away from someone who's absolutely too fucking old to drive, but refuses to give them up.

Now: imagine that, except instead of wanting the keys to the car, he wants the keys to the nuclear codes.

I'd agree that Biden was forced out, but that was the Democrats' own doing, not the media's, and it was ABSOLUTELY necessary. Aside from his "grand finale' speech at the DNC, he's been as absent-minded as ever when speaking to the media – even his impromptu appearance, for the first time in his entire presidency, in the White House Briefing Room. (Also, that fact alone is an obvious indicator that Dems were trying to cover for his "senior moments," though obviously it's not the absurdly elaborate conspiracy being floating by the GQP.

"you mean the ONLY time he won (2016)"

Or did he?

[quote]somebody being willing to hire me should I develop a condition that would otherwise make me uninsurable

Of course. I said the pre-existing condition prohibition was the one concession we got from the ACA, and that alone has a great deal of value. But for the record, that's not the way that corporate-provided health insurance worked before the ACA; under corporate plans, even employees with pre-existing conditions were covered, with caveats such as no or limited covering some issues in the first year of employment/coverage. We decided as a nation in the post WW2-era to tie health insurance to employment which was a huge mistake and one we're still paying for; nevertheless, until Shitler repeals Obamacare, we have that one gem from the Obama years.

[quote]Everyone knows that would have failed resoundingly.

You must be a fan of Rahm Emmanuel. It's that reasoning that we didn't even try. There was support for a public option, and clever legislating could have passed it as a separate bill from the overall ACA, bypassing the roadblocks we faced with Republikkkan's favorite Democrat (after Joe Lieberman) Joe Mansion and Blanche Lincoln. But it was Emmanuel who ultimately killed the public option, and it only took sending him off to wreck Chicago to get him out of the White House and out of Obama's sphere of influence.

I voted for Obama twice and would vote again for him today, but he wasn't the Godly gift to presidential accomplishment that Democrats dream.

You mean quit OP, not quitted. That’s not a word.

President Biden is a good man but couldn't keep up the pace. I felt safe with Joe, unlike the other guy. I believe Kamala will do fine.

R40 It’s the best a Russian kid can do.

R28 Dear God, if Obama had been idiot enough to propose a public option, which has been a failure since Truman, we would have nothing today.

I couldn't care less about Rahm Emmanuel so I have no idea why you imagine I do.

No reasonable person is saying Obama was a gift from God. That's silly. All that was claimed is that Obamacare alone is a bigger achievement than all of the numerous but totally ephemeral legislation Biden has passed, which has little effect on anyone's lives and will be forgotten within ten years at most.

Obama care could be called Pelosi care. To pass a landmark piece of legislation Biden would need a Pelosi figure in the House and a healthy majority in the Senate. He would also need the shadow president in mar a lago gone. Unfortunately, the shadow president fenced Biden in. A big, bold piece of legislation was never, ever going to pass when the orange shadow was in the wings, meeting world leaders, telling the spineless wimps in Congress how to vote and insisting that we had won the election.

Biden had to be more conservative to get anything done and in that environment, one which we’ve never had before and will be written about for centuries, he did good. Very good.

I don’t think we have fully processed how strange the last 8 years have been. We’ve already forgotten all about Covid. We’ve ignored the shadow operation in Florida. Imagine Obama trying to legislate while John McCain is meeting with the UK, the Saudis, the Iranians, the Israelis, the Russians in his private home which has boxes of classified documents. Imagine Obama telling the Brits they he will support them on X then they fly down to Arizona to meet with McCain because they can’t actually go forward until they know that McCain is also okay with it. If McCain says Y then the Brits go home knowing that plans are dead in the water because Congress will vote with McCain’s wishes. Madness. It would have been the scandal of the century. And that’s without pretending that he won and without trying to hang Sarah Palin during an attempted coup. But it’s been our reality for the past 4 years and it’s barely mentioned. Trump killed the border bill, he held up funding for Ukraine for months. He undermined our negotiations with Russia by having regular chinwags with Putin where he was no doubt played like a fiddle.

Interesting hypothetical, r44, but ignores the fact that what fenced Biden in was not so much the orange shadow in FL, as you poetically put it, but Biden's own incompetence—in the medical sense. What's truly remarkable about the Biden admin is that anything got done at all. When Biden met with foreign leaders “to discuss X,” they’ve returned home shocked to the back teeth at the state of his mental condition.

Biden ran as a placeholder, and that’s why he should never have announced his candidacy for a second term. The arrogance. Fortunately, he finally yielded to enormous pressure and “quitted” the election.

There. Now OP has earned his rubles. Again.

"quitted"?

Brokeback OP

Boris OP

Face the facts. This, with Kamala Harris and Donald Trump in a close race, is the best possible scenario we had as soon as Biden tottered out to the debate stage on June 27.

Biiden staying in and showing his decline over and over would have been a fucking wipeout. Think about what the DNC Convention would have felt like. And how the September debate would have gone.

And an open, contested convention? Those never ever end well. Pelosi was smart as a whip about everything else but she was so wrong in wanting that. We’d have ended up with Harris anyway, except a significant % of Dems would be mad about it, having taken the side of whoever fought her for the nomination.

R44. We get it. Everything Obama accomplished was someone else’s doing, and none of his failures can be blamed on circumstances. Biden’s forgettable presidency is, on the other hand, a product of circumstances. Truly brilliant. Why hadn’t the rest of us thought of that?

[quote]You mean quit OP, not quitted. That’s not a word.

Damn straight it's not.

#44, humans are very adaptable.

R49 you hit it on the nail with everything you stated. And I just want to reiterate a point you made.”the best possible scenario we had as soon as Biden tottered out to the debate stage on June 27.”

I like the way you stated that because in hindsight it’s funny but it was truly terrifying—the actual debate, those of us who watched it in real time. It was like an episode of The Twilight Zone. Watching it in real time hits different than those who watched clips after the hoopla. It was like dayum”Trump is gna become president again”.