Ehud Barak

So, I'm curious where he ranks in history. On one hand, he is the refined and elegant man, but on the other is in over his head and not a charismatic leader. Can you be both?

He IS Ehud Barak.

Has anyone read his book? It is pretty good.

no thoughts?

He was besties with freaking Epstein. Who’s next? HE IS Alan Dershowitz?

Condi Troll, expanding their horizons into more 2000s political nostalgia?

In a just world, Condi would have been the one hiding in an embassy somewhere a la Assange.

He was cute

R5 He just conducted business with Epstein. Every time it was in public and others were around.

He was a Janet Jackson stan. Huge.

He still is a JJ fan, R10. His infatuation began with with Janet's Jheri curls. They go so well with peyot.

"significant concessions"

I knew there would be a reason someone on DL liked him.

[Quote] He led efforts like the 2000 Camp David Summit, offering significant concessions to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat in pursuit of a two-state solution.

This is nonsense of course.

[quote] He was besties with freaking Epstein

Epstein was a leech who would cling to anyone he thought would benefit him. Most people weren’t interested and simply too busy to engage with him.

Others clearly had the time and inclination to develop their relationship. Hi Andy!

r13 you disagree with that?

It’s not a matter of disagreeing, r15. It’s factually wrong. But like with many things Israel/Palestine, facts are very far away from the American mainstream narrative.

Barak did not offer “significant concessions.” He proposed that multiple small parcels of land be declared “Palestine.” Each parcel would have no border with any of the other parcels or with any other country. Each little parcel would only border Israel.

Cutting off each parcel from the others would be Israeli military highways that Israel would (of course) have sole jurisdiction over.

The offer was so insulting, no one in their right mind would see it as anything but a first offer before real bargaining began. Arafat naturally said no. Barak said, “no? Ok bye” and left. Arafat was shocked and tried to get Barak to stay, including appealing to Clinton. Clinton said to Arafat, well, you have to understand, he has an election coming up.

What Barak offered and then flounced off when it was rejected has been compared to the “Bantustans” in apartheid South Africa. Little blobs of land completely dominated by the racist South African regime that surrounded them.

Barack had no intention on offering any real independence to a Palestine rump state. It was all theatrics so he could then claim he made an offer and Arafat rejected it. And of course it worked — to this day it’s claimed, preposterously, that Barak offered “significant concessions.”

See Zuckerman’s summary below.

Ackerman ^^^

R16 Do you think Barak was better for Palestine than Sharon or Netanyahu?

R18, Zionism is Zionism. There’s another pervasive myth that Labor is nicer to the Palestinians than likkud. The opposite has been true — until Netanyahu went for his “final solution” we see playing out now.

There was an old story in Israel back in the day — Sharon was shouting “NO NO NO” to some proposal in the Knesset. Peres said to him, “you know the difference between you and us, Ariel? You say, ‘NO,’ and we say ‘yes…but.’”

One thing I forgot to mention that underlines how disingenuous the Barak “offer” was — part of the deal would have been that some of the most valuable land still under control of the PA was to be annexed by Israel, and in exchange Palestine was to get some desert land, including a badly maintained toxic waste dump, from Israel. The offer was designed to be rejected.

That's politics

That’s genocide

[quote][R18], Zionism is Zionism. There’s another pervasive myth that Labor is nicer to the Palestinians than likkud. The opposite has been true — until Netanyahu went for his “final solution” we see playing out now.

No, Zionism is the belief that Jews can have a democratically run state of their own.

And your mention of "final solution" makes me think you're a fucking Nazi.

[quote] No, Zionism is the belief that Jews can have a democratically run state of their own.

No, it’s that they can have someone else’s state as their own.

[quote] And your mention of "final solution" makes me think you're a fucking Nazi.

Im not the commenter you’re replying to R23 but, a genocide is unfolding before our eyes. 2 million people have been displaced and food and aid is being blocked to them. More than 80% of structures in Gaza have been totally destroyed and nearly every single hospital damaged. This is all happening and you’re more concerned about someone criticizing it happening rather than the actual atrocities that are happening.

Lots of apologists for consorting with Epstein. If you were a head of state it is OK to be friends with him?